Are vitamins necessary on carnivore?


(Jane) #21

Does meat supply Vit K?

I ask because I suffered terrible nose bleeds my whole life. As did my Dad and both sons so apparently hereditary. I would get a nose bleed from blowing my nose (or just spontaneously start dripping down my upper lip) and then spend the next 15-20 min trying to stop it with pressure.

I mentioned it to my PCP some years back and he ordered a vit K test. Normal is “trace” amounts. I had none.

I started supplementing with vit K2 and it was miraculous! Nose bleed occurrences diminished and when I got one I could stop it like everyone else by pinching my nostrils for a couple of minutes.

Always had low blood pressure so doesn’t explain the spontaneous nose bleeds. Fortunately was never bad enough to impede any surgeries- just very annoying.


(Doug) #22

Paul, I love that. Perhaps it just sounds so darn cool. :smile:

It does make a gut-basic sense to me, no pun intended. So much of the whole modern diet-medical-drug deal relates to dealing with the very cycle therein.


#23

(Carnivore for the win) #24

#25

Cronometer data is good to approach a deficiency and oversupply investigation. Does it have adaptability settings for different eating patterns? Or, is it based on a general omnivore template?

There are probably some variables and nuances that have an increasing impact as one investigates the details of one’s way of eating.

I was always interested and concerned about Vitamin C in a dedicated human carnivore way of eating. Mainly due to human psychology and behaviour where a person takes to a WOE that may be deficient in some nutrition but ignores the symptoms of deficiency over time and persists toward ill health due to dogmatic tribalism, rather than making required dietary adjustments to remedy the deficiency (dare I say, some vegans? But not exclusively vegans).

The other carnivore concern I had was an oversupply of phosphorus in the diet, if interpreting ‘carnivore’ as eating just muscle meat only, which may result in a slow leaching of calcium from bone storage over time.

Both these concerns do not seem to be borne out by the major perpetrators and commentators on the carnivore WOE. Now, they could be lying to me, to us, like a vegan doctor whose retail business and reputation relies on peddling mistruths. Or, just as likely, I am not yet to fully understand the metabolic physiological nuances of individuals who find a WOE that seems to work best for them in whatever phase, plateau, or step they are taking toward bettering their health.

The vitamin C thing in carnivore seems explained by carnivore eaters not needing as much vitamin C in the diet due to the concurrent elimination of plant anti-nutrients and binders that required higher intakes to offset them. I might be perpetrating a myth here. I have no research to back me up on that story.

I think the personal investigation of any WOE might be best done with a knowledgeable and trustworthy guide. Like heading up a mountain or into a purportedly untrustworthy neighbourhood.

Carnivore elders will claim that in their experience that no supplements are necessary. Wisely they have the caveat that we all are individuals. We might not know we are bordering on a nutritional deficiency that the carnivore WOE unmasks, rather than creates, for example. Magnesium deficiency in the general population comes to mind.

I think the key is to embark on the WOE with all one’s acquired keto knowledge and be ready to see what happens. If you get symptoms, then ask your guide(s).

Advising prophylactic supplementation (I hope that doesn’t have any ambiguous meaning) on starting a WOE is potentially wasteful. And then I think of sodium chloride and keto.


#26

yes, K is in meat. K2 is in meat. K2 is in eggs etc.

thing is if you require a supplement for something etc. like nose bleeds and you do ok with that, then take some :slight_smile:

meat/seafood/ fish and fowl has all you need! But like I said before, you don’t have to supp unless you know you require something etc…like if the K2 supp is miraculous to you, keep taking some but you can also do another thing…dump it. Go without and do carnivore and ‘see how ya fair thru it all’ and if you find K2 is needed, then add it back for yourself personally…nothing wrong with that.

always think that carnivore is coming at an angle of ‘what do you really need on a personal level’ and it is an elimination menu to do just that. Dump all supps, KNOW what you do need by getting a test, since ya know your K2 is very low or none, then you know you need it to help you with your nosebleeds. If you dump it and you do fine on your meat, maybe your eggs and meat and seafood etc. is giving you all you need and you are processing your K and K2 better and all that…but it is a walk into elimination and then find out what you need for yourself when tackling carnivore.

-----------also in general humans were thriving on meat. Without animal proteins there was no vaulting forward in the species… was no moving forward, no gaining brain power, no long term existence. Look at the ancient cities throughout the world! Those were a thriving community who were meat/seafood based menus and without the meat, there was no thriving forward movement in civilizations as we seen them live thru their mega communities. So yea ancient times were not just surviving at all, they were thriving, if they didn’t, we wouldn’t be here today or who we are today :slight_smile:


(Robin) #27

Thanks for this!


(Old Baconian) #28

This was a very interesting video. Thanks for the link.


(Jane) #29

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Yes, it would be no big deal to stop taking K to see. So, I gotta spend an extra 10-15 min in the restroom to stop a nose bleed - nothing serious!

I tease my husband it is my long lost Russian royalty genes :laughing:


(Bob M) #30

Amber O’Hearn thinks it’s carnitine that helps the vitamin C issue.


(Carnivore for the win) #31

Your welcome. It is a solid group of carnivores.


(Michael) #32

My daughter has been prescribed vitamin K to help increase blood coagulation (ie to stop nose bleeds or other cuts from excessive bleeding). She has taken this medication since being a young child, as well as many other due to congenital absence of her portal vein.


#33

Magnesium supplementation is probably generally recommended on low carb, keto or carnivore.


(Marianne) #34

I don’t eat any fish whatsoever and very rarely seafood (yuck to me) - maybe some cold shrimp once in a blue moon. Used to eat a can of tuna, but that was when I was using mayo. Since I stopped that, I don’t eat tuna anymore.

Should I be taking a fish oil pill?


#35

no you don’t need a fish oil pill. your meat fat provides everything but too bad ya don’t like seafood or other fish…it really provides us with so much ya know.

if you liked a can of tuna with mayo…my advice it IS OK TO EAT some mayo IF YOU want to eat a little mayo. Some drop it but for many, when newer to carnivore and wanting to hold plan more easy, people will allow a tablespoon of mayo a few times a month into their meal plan cause heck they like it. I absolutely used regular ol’ Hellman’s mayo in chicken salad and my tuna when I wanted it, and I did well on it so…but thru time I mostly just dropped it cause I didn’t ‘require’ it anymore, but if you truly think you want a little to me there isn’t a thing wrong with that IF you do well on it, enjoy it, makes your life better on carnivore and helps you hold your plan better etc. as you change. Alot of us carnivores think that about mayo :slight_smile:


(Marianne) #36

Oh, this was so excellent! I watched the entire thing. Clarified many of the same questions I had about eating carnivore.


(Marianne) #37

Oh, God bless; honestly!!! :hugs:

Question, I just watched the 10 Year Carnivore video that @Elliot-W posted above. Very informative and I loved these people!!! Anyway, I know there are a few things I do that are not carnivore, like drinking coffee, which I am not going to sweat. The thing I know that is not recommended is I usually have a diet soda or two each day (lately). Obviously, it tastes sweet and is carbonated and delicious. I also consume about 1-2 packets of Splenda a day in my coffee. These haven’t awakened any cravings for me, although I find the diet pop delicious. I know optimal carnivore (and keto) is zero artificial sweetener. Is the possible insulin spike the major reason why this is not recommended?

Oh, and frozen chicken wings with plain hot sauce cooked in an air fryer. I gather from other posts that chicken wings have a lot of additives that may not be optimal (and store rotissiere chickens), and hot sauce is not exactly carnivore. Are these items “harmful”?


(Old Baconian) #38

Most carnivores don’t consider coffee to be a problem. However, if it causes you problems, don’t drink it.

The non-sugar sweeteners may or may not be a problem for you. But other people may find it advisable to avoid one or more of them. Only you can decide whether you are in the latter group.

Again, the sauce might be a problem for you. If it turns out to be, then avoid it.

Remember that many of the people in that video were more or less forced into a carnivore diet because of intractable health problems that could not be resolved any other way.


(Marianne) #39

Thanks so much, Paul. None of these pose a problem for me but I know the diet pop in particular is frowned upon by many in our community. I guess like people here and in the video have said, “I’ll do me…”, and adjust if I need to.


(Bob M) #40

If you were to come to me and ask me things to drink, diet soda wouldn’t be one of them. However, I’ve seen quite a few people who still drink diet sodas and don’t seem to be affected in a negative way. If that’s you, then it’s great.

From my perspective, there are/could be two issues with diet pop (aka “soda”, which I think which one you use depends where you’re from):

  1. Does the sweetness act like a trigger or cause you to want more “sugary” items?

  2. Does the diet soda affect your biome?

If (1) isn’t an issue, then great. As for (2), the studies there are always confusing. I never know what to believe.

The same could be said for splenda or any other artificial sweetener. I’m reading a book about the metabolic nature of cancer, and the authors don’t like a lot of sweeteners. I’m not sure what to do with that info, as I don’t think the studies have been done to show which artificial sweetener is “best”.