Are veggies important?


(Alec) #21

I had the same problem. VERY averse to eating liver from childhood memories of being forced to eat it at school dinners. Terribly over cooked and horribly bitter.

Bought chicken liver recently and made my own liver pate (pic below), and while I cooked the livers, I ate one. REVELATION!!! It was beautiful: smooth, tender, tasted like a smooth sweet meat. Highly recommended!


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #22

Your account will be deleted if there isn’t a recipe for this in the Recipes forum pronto, Mister! :grin::grin:


(Alec) #23

I love a good threat to make sure things are right! :joy::joy:

Not in the recipes section, but I did explain what I did here… is it possible to cross reference this to the recipes section?


(Full Metal KETO AF) #24

@Alecmcq I never see @PaulL in that thread, not enough :bacon::bacon::bacon::bacon:me thinks!

:joy::rofl::grin::wink:


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #25

I was just kidding, but thanks for the link. I keep a folder of recipes on my hard drive. This looks like a keeper.

Linked that post to a thread in the Recipes, so that it can be found by everyone. Yum! :bacon::bacon:

It’s not that—it’s just that I got tired of cleaning drool off my keyboard, lol! :bacon:


(Alec) #26

Gratuitous pic just for @PaulL for no readily apparent reason. Drool away…

And I love that we have focussed onto meat and liver on a thread with a title about veg!!


#27

All I do for liver is fry it in some butter or bacon/duck fat for about a minute each side, then salt/spice it. I’m not saying liver’s my favorite food, but it’s fine. Chicken liver is more palatable but beef liver has more micronutrients.


(Karim Wassef) #28

I should have been more clear. It’s not that we don’t need vitamin C, we just get enough of it from animal sources to not need veggies.

On liver… you can literally eat liver like oysters. Little lime juice, melted butter, salt and hot sauce and it’s good to go. Even wild game…: liver is so naturally soft, that you can eat it “body warm”. If it touches fire, then let it just sear and remove. The sweet softness is wrecked when it’s overcooked.

I sous vide to keep it soft and make my own patee.

If you’re squeamish, just add it to your burger mix for healthier hamburger meat.


(Alec) #29

Now there’s an idea. Hamburger for the kids made of a quarter pate and 3/4s full fat beef mince. I’d never get them to eat liver or pate on their own, but hiding in a burger, that’s a different story!!

And I love that now I’m keto, beef mince is so much cheaper (not having to buy lean mince).


(Chris) #30

The importance of veggies is overblown.

Fiber is not needed for healthy gut Flora. Your Flora will adapt to what you feed it. Especially with keto, bhb production can make up for the supposed lack of butyrate production.

Fiber is only needed for pooping if you’re eating bad carbs anyway.

Vitamins in vegetables are overblown. Most of them are not even usable by humans, or have to be converted to usable versions (which our bodies actually suck at). For instance, you need k2. Spinach has k1 which the body needs to convert. Spinach also has antinutrients that block the body’s absorption of micronutrients so you get even less benefit.

Finally, the RDA (which differs from country to country by the way) are based on the same type of garbage science that the lipid hypothesis is. We don’t even know for sure how close you have to get to the RDA, it’s developed on patients that ate high carb diets.


(Karim Wassef) #31

technically… the veggies questions is a direct mirror of the “can you live without veggies?”… which is analogous to “can you live on animals alone?” … really the same question.

And thank you for the bacon pic… :smiley:

I usually fast for lent with veggies only - this year, I’ve decided to go on a full fast (no food at all) rather than eat veggies only… there are many other reasons for this. Fundamentally, I think our ancestors would have gone as long as possible until resorting to eating plant matter intended for the beasts…

I’m not biased at all… :smiley:


#33

Yes, we dont need veggies but we dont need exercise either but exercise stresses the system and makes it stronger and I believe occasionally eating a bunch of veggies stresses the system and strengthens it as well. You cant strengthen the immune system without stressing it as well but I agree that we dont HAVE TO do this. I will keep eating low glycemic veggies occasionally but I did not eat any today. All I had was ribeye and tri-tip


(Chris) #34

There’s better ways of strengthening the immune system, like with bacteria. Have you tried raw meat?

Hormesis is a silly theory. That’s vegan logic.


#35

You can also make fresh frozen liver supplements, by dicing the liver into 1/4 inch small squares, then spreading them out on trays in a single layer then freezing them - and taking 6-8 of them whole as a supplement.

But I’ve yet to get around to that. I supplement with raw freeze dried liver capsules - and it’s very helpful.


#36

I’m in the camp of veg (and some fruit) fiber feeding the good bacteria in the large intestine - and them producing huge amounts of butyrate - much more than one receives from eating foods like butter. But this might vary depending on one’s genetic heritage and blood type.

Contrary to the general carnivore point of view - the Inuit prized fermented birds, which had veg matter in their (decomposed) tummies. And apparently the Inuit valued spring grasses, seaweed, and berries (probably trading through ancient trade routes with other coastal-accessible tribes) - variety is the spice of life, whenever possible.

I also think the anti-oxidants in fibrous fresh whole fruit like berries, apples, and pears and some citrus are underplayed by many - but may be an essential nutrient in industrial civ, with its high load of pollutants and resulting cellular dysplasias, and its lack of raw meat eating. In fact, a lot of modern industrial folks seem to eat meat overcooked and burned.

Re fibrous fruits - according to LCHF physician and sugar research SME Robert Lustig MD, the vast majority of fiber in fibrous fruits sequesters the fructose so it’s not metabolized. Also, high fiber veg carbs are not counted at all by some in the LCHF/keto world as long as one is getting one’s fat and protein in well formulated way - the veg/fruit intake stays moderate, which is very low by SAD standards.

Also, could well tie in with your ancestral background. Personally, the majority of my ancestors come from salmon loving peoples. If I could, for animal flesh I would only eat wild-caught salmon and sea-trout (sort of half-salmon) - they are my FAVE animal taste, esp with butter! I just feel bad knowing that the salmon numbers have crashed due to human interference with traditional salmon habitats (dams, water pollution, etc) - and also the price is understandably on the high end. The “farm”-raised is way unnatural - besides the artificial dyes adding to make the sad salmon’s unnaturally paler flesh brighter for selling, the fact that the fish are forced to swim in the same direction due to a circular forced current, is mighty cruel and insane imho.

While raw wild meat is all we really need in the wild, aboriginal and indigenous peoples apparently have enjoyed diverse nibbles of wild snacks (including barbequed bugs, fish eggs, certain spices and raw honeycomb in southern climes as well as fruits and veg - seasonal as well as fermented). Why? Because… the palate is connected to the brain, and diversity of tastes are stimulating and celebratory. Food is fundamental to human culture and celebration - and the Inuit love of very stinky keviak (fermented birds with decomposed veg matter) was a version of that.


(Chris) #37

The Inuit prized plants as a used-sparingly treat or when actually starving, to prolong death. They didn’t actually refer to them as food when asked.


#38

fermented lichen from reindeer stomachs

…at least according to Stephan Guyenet.


#39

When you say “veggies”, I hope you mean vegetables. Because in some places “veggies” are vegetarians. And that makes your post very interesting reading. :wink:


(Chris) #40

Depends. Grass fed?


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #41

Please forgive a small correction: As I understand Dr. Lustig, his point is not that the fructose doesn’t get metabolized, merely that the fiber slows down the absorption rate to something the liver can handle without damage.