Are veggies important?

(Adriana Ro) #1

I was Struggling To 20g total carbs per day, and most of my carbs Came from veggies. Recently I avoided eating veggies and I feel better. I eat a lot of fat, a good amount of protein (100g per day at maximum) and almost 0 carbs. I don’t even need to snack anymore, which was my goal. So the question is: Do we really need to eat veggies? And, Would eating this way keep me in ketosis?

(Robert C) #2

Hi @m.Keto.m

To find out more about the vegetable requirement you can research the Carnivore section of this site.
The podcast linked below does a deep dive into Carnivore - very informative but pretty deep (interview starts at 12:22).

But, although vegetables are not needed by everyone - replacing them with fake foods up to your 20 gram limit would probably be worse.

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/carnivore-diet-benefits

(Allan Misner) #3

The short answer is you don’t need veggies to survive. We can go long periods of time without anything but protein and fat. But…

Vegetables have fiber which is important in managing a healthy gut flora. It also helps add bulk to your stool allowing for better bowel movements. I know the carnivores can better answer whether constipation is ever an issue. If it is for you, some fiber may help.

More importantly, vegetables give us vitamins and minerals you don’t get from muscle meat. Eating organ meat can offset this. But really, how much organ meat are people eating? (liver is far cheaper than steak)

Before you just throw veggies out, I’d consider eliminating them and then reintroducing in stages to see if you are sensitive to certain types (nightshades) or the preparation (raw vs cooked). That way you’d be able to set your way of eating to suit your body and get the nutrition you need.

(John) #4

I eat plenty of veggies. I don’t know if I “need” them or not but I try to shade my personal version of keto a bit more toward the middle of the diet spectrum. Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, spinach, lettuce, mushrooms, tomatoes, celery, peppers, cucumbers, squash, onions, garlic, chard, berries. Portion size and frequency of consumption is the key.

They add variety, flavor, and nutrients to my diet. Just meat, eggs, and cheese would be harder to stick with for me. But add salad, or sauteed chard, streamed broccoli with butter, mashed cauliflower with cheese, spiralized squash and zucchini noodles, spinach and mushrooms added to an omelet - and you have a full and interesting meal.

#5

Eskimos . . .

(Robert C) #6

If you are descended from the Inuits then their eating habits might be good for you.

If you came form a middle latitude - seasonal fruits and vegetables might be better for you.

Some Indian people are vegan and survive but that fact isn’t going to get me to go vegan.

#7

What podcast?

(Robert C) #8

Thanks @Hap - added the link :ok_hand:

#9

I just eat liver. It’s more nutritious (and more importantly, bioavailable) than any veggie could hope to be.

(Karim Wassef) #10

You actually don’t need veggies… animals that eat veggies incorporate their nutrients and you can consume it through them.

That assumes that the diet of the animals you eat is good enough to provide those nutrients… Mushrooms do that too. They consume plants, remove the phytotoxins and concentrate the phytonutrients.

Also don’t need fiber or Vitamin C if you’re not eating veggies.

That said - the digestive system does benefit from an occasional cleanse with veggies - that’s what I believe anyway. This should be a temporary change to allow the body to remain flexible and digestively dynamic. Fasting does that too, but some phytonutrients and a small amount of stress helps kick the immune system (Homeostasis).

So I treat veggies like natural herbal medicine… it can be useful, but it’s not necessary.

#11

I take 4 or 6 desiccated liver tablets almost every day

#12

I wouldn’t recommend tablets, if possible. I’d recommend eating actual beef or chicken liver, or consuming cod liver oil (the actual oil, not the pills).

#13

I actually LIKE the veggie smoothy that Rhonda Patric makes. I make three or four of them once a month or so. It’s hard to buy just enough to only make one smoothie

(Karim Wassef) #14

I discovered cod liver (not just the oil). I love eating the actual liver… canned in cod liver oil.

#15

I always hated liver when I was young but tastes change, maybe I should give fresh liver a try again. I don’t recall seeing it in stores but I would only want to eat it from grass fed and grass finished cows.

We sometimes learn to like the things we need.

(Khara) #16

Can you expand on this?

I don’t eat a lot of veggies. My Keto journey is almost carnivore and has been most of the time. I just don’t crave veggies very much. If I do have an actual craving it’s for broccoli smothered in butter and so I think it’s more about needing fat or I’ll crave a cold veggie like cucumber and usually that’s on a hot day and I’m probably dehydrated. So because I don’t eat a lot of veggies my fiber is always way way low (often 1-2 grams). I hear people talking about needing fiber and striving for upwards of 20 grams in order to have BM’s but I’ve just never experienced this.

(Karim Wassef) #17

Meats and fats are actually easier to pass through the digestive system. Our guts are closer to canines than gorillas. Wolves and lions don’t eat grass and they’re fine.

If you eat veggies though, our guts have a real hard time pushing them through without the aid of fiber. Fiber actually takes up space and makes stool bulky, but it ends up being fermented into short chain fatty acids. That + the stimulation of the intestinal walls helps move the bulk.

Vitamin C is also very heavily consumed when digesting veggies. If you don’t eat veggies, you don’t need as much. Eating meat spares vitamin C. Also, liver had more than adequate vitamin C on a carnivore diet.

(Khara) #18

This makes me think that the people I know who struggle with BM’s possibly are causing their own problems by being low fat eaters. Not enough lubricant? They seem to obsess about getting fiber… fiber, fiber, fiber! In addition to veggies they eat bars that advertise fiber, take Metamucil, and yet complain about only being able to ‘go’ every few days, and it’s not easy, they are constipated. It’s always confounded me. I don’t have the issue and I feel for them. I’m very skeptical about any non-real food intake though (supplements and such). My own anecdotal general feeling is that they are making things harder on themselves with all the added crap. Maybe fat is the answer.

I’ve tried liver. :nauseated_face: I really have, tried and tried and tried. I just can’t do it. :expressionless:
@anon2571578

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

It was probably overcooked. Dredge it in almond flour and fry in bacon grease, no more than 90 seconds a side. You will be amazed. I certainly was, the first time I ever tasted properly-cooked liver.

Dr. Phinney just posted on the Virta blog about fiber and keto:
Fiber and Colon Health On A Well-Formulated Ketogenic Diet: New Insights Question Its Role As An Unconditional Requirement - Blog | Virta Health

As for Vitamin C, the insulin from a high-carb diet turns on genes that suppress the body’s built-in defense against oxidation; the β-hydroxybutryate from a well-formulated ketogenic diet turns those genes off again, thus reactivating the body’s oxidative defenses and rendering exogenous anti-oxidants, such as Vitamin C, unnecessary.

#20

Fiber is for short chain fatty acids but not all fiber is created equal.