I’ve heard that the worst possible diet consists of a high carb diet pared with high fat intake.
As one who doesn’t want to give up a cup of yogurt, large garden salad, bowl of vegetable soup, or an apple a day, getting into nutritional ketosis is hard if not impossible.
Will being in a non-ketosis state (while being on low-carb diet) coupled with a high fat diet have any detrimental effects, or any benefits?
Can one become ‘fat adapted’ if not in nutritional ketosis?
Simply put -
No, you can not do both.
If you eat high carbs this will keep you out of ketosis and will keep you from fat adapting. Your body will continue to use glucose as fuel and when it doesn’t need it for energy, it will store it in your fat cells. If you than add more fat from over consuming, this gives even more storage cells to fill and you will increase body volume. This is the problem with the SAD diet we have been recommended by the AMA for the last 50 years.
Ron is right overall but we would need to know your situation. If you are metabolically healthy, then you probably don’t have to give up any of those and still potentially stay in ketosis.
Even if you are not and need a lower carb budget, salads are mostly OK (avoid croutons etc.), there are low carb yogurts (greek?), veggie soup (not potato/leek), and a small apple could all fit in a 50g regime.
If you are obese and metabolically unhealthy and you need a 20g net limit, then you have to give up some of these things, though if you only had one or two of these a day rather than all of them, you may still be OK. Maybe have to quit the apple and have berries instead.
You need to establish your baseline, carb budget etc. and then see what fits. None of those things are terrible carbage so that’s a good start. It’s not like you want to eat a donut, half a pizza and a fudge sundae each day. 
I don’t think Ron quite understood the question.
Considering one is metabolically healthy, are there any detrimental effects, or benefits, consuming a low-carb diet while not being in nutritional ketosis combined with a high-fat diet.
Your right. Since you were new I was answering accordingly.
This might be more helpful.
Context is everything… without it, he understood it fine… and he is fundamentally right - see below.
Oops, there it is… a bit.
It is still a somewhat abstract question. Ketosis is a means to an end, not an end in itself and mostly a by-product of fat burning (lipolysis) - which only happens consistently in the presence of low insulin. Aside - The other way of enjoying the benefits of ketones is exogenous ketones (not super popular around here) OR things like MCT oil that will easily convert to ketones even when not in ketosis. Even if you don’t want to lose weight, lipolysis/ketosis still works upon the dietary fat you eat (how lean people stay in ketosis). SO… as long as you keep insulin low enough you will burn fat (body or food) and produce at least some ketones. On the margins where your carb intake keeps insulin at a level just below where you will burn fat, then your ketone production will be marginal too - low enough to not give you the benefits but just about burn some fat an hopefully not store your high fat intake.
If you are looking for ketones for the clarity, energy, cancer prevention, etc. then you necessarily have to be low enough carbs (which again could possibly include all your items but still not carbage) to be in ketosis. If you are definitely not in ketosis, then you are probably keeping insulin too high at which point, the high fat diet is pointless metabolically. It is only useful because of lipolysis (creating ketosis). In a marginal case, you may only gain slowly or even just maintain if you exercise hard but you will be higher insulin and in a higher inflammatory state than if you were in lipolysis/ketosis. I can’t think of any benefits of high fat when you can’t achieve lipolysis/ketosis. Obviously, if you eat carbage, then no amount of metabolic health will save you in the long term but you might do fine until you don’t.
Back to the context of your situation as much as we understand. If you eat the carbs you want above and it is too much for lipolysis/ketosis, the high fat diet is probably pointless and may be dangerous depending on your insulin level. The closer you are to the marginal level of insulin the less dangerous it is and if this is the diet you prefer, go for it but you’d be missing the benefits of being fat/ketone adapted.
I hope that helps. Test yourself against various level of carbs you don’t want to give up. At least as “healthy” you should have more leeway than most around here.
I think all the above is spot on, but if you have no interest in keto then you still want to include healthy fats in your diet. Eating a cake is absolutely detrimental being it is high sugar and high fat (high calorie), processed, but your body needs healthy fats no matter how you eat. I don’t personally believe keto is the only way to eat healthy if you are in good metabolic shape, so if you enjoy low GI carbs that aren’t conducive to keto, still eat healthy oils, nuts, avocados, coconut, etc. I’m sure it’s obvious advice but just keep your body clean by cutting out processed food altogether no matter if you are keto or not. I do believe the classic idea of paying attention to overall caloric intake is more important if you are eating this way and want to lose weight. I’ve also witnessed people not on keto have success with intermittent fasting, to lose weight, in metabolically healthy people. The main takeaway I hope though is cutting out processed carbs is going to be the major benefit if you aren’t already doing that. You won’t become fat adapted if your body is using glucose for energy, so I guess I should of started with why you want to be fat adapted? I assumed to lose weight and you could certainly lose weight without keto if that’s your goal.
Definitely.
OK. If I understand correctly what youre saying…
A ‘metabolically healthy’ person who eats the “healthy” foods I mention above (which could easily reach 100g+ carbs with other food intake) should be able to maintain a low enough insulin level to perform Lipolysis.
Follow up question:
If they aren’t ‘Metabolically healthy’ and therefore not performing Lipolysis, and therefore the “high fat diet is probably pointless and may be dangerous” as you mention, doesn’t this imply that one should eat carbs or protein instead of the fat, in such situations?
Maybe. Insulin doesn’t care about how healthy you or the food is. Too many carbs, too much insulin, no lipolysis/ketosis. If your metabolism can handle 100g and not raise you insulin too high then you are OK, if not, it doesn’t really matter what the carbs are, though slower ones are probably better than faster ones.
I think you are confusing the idea that “metabolically healthy” is automatically protective and changes the way the body works. As I understand it (and I am only an amateur) it doesn’t change it at all, just gives you higher margins of carb tolerance. Too much insulin is bad for anyone - the issue is, at what carb level is insulin too high. Everyone started metabolically healthy and a bad diet will ruin anyone (eventually). The question is how long will it take.
Try to find the maximum carbs to get you just into ketosis/lipolysis. It may be everything you want.
It says you are basically (slowly or quickly) screwed. Eating more carbs is worse (carbs become body fat as its raises insulin the most), more protein has its own issues (more insulinogenic than fat and enough to eat to satiety may be above safe levels). Eating mostly fat may be the best of a bad lot of macros AS LONG AS you don’t raise that insulin too much with the carbs you do eat. It is more about how your body likes these various macros and their impacts. Maybe you struggle with satiety on high fat, or high protein, or one causes carb cravings… we are metabolic snowflakes.
Again, what happens on average is not that important for us as individuals. The big warning is always against the SAD macro levels - high carb, high fat - WORST. Other combos are all about what hormones are triggered at what levels… most relevantly, in you… but none are close to as good as LCHF with a sprinkle of ketosis.*
*except the crazy 90%+ carb, 10% protein, no fat diet that is ALSO (weirdly) healthy.
so I guess I should of started with why you want to be fat adapted? I assumed to lose weight and you could certainly lose weight without keto if that’s your goal.
Yes, my goal would be to lose 3 kilos … and reading the above replies suggests that just cutting the carbs and replacing them with healthy fats could do more harm than good, * unless I reach the level of Ketosis *
Remember, what your brain wants to lose and your body wants are two different things. Keto works with the latter, not the former.
Not necessarily. If you are and stay low carb (even if not ketotic) then high fat has its advantages over the other macros and should not result in any worse impact. Lower the carbs, the safer and greater the benefits.
I’m going to throw these in the mix if you want to learn about ketosis and adaption -
Ok now I am confused. This contradicts what you just said above:
If you eat the carbs you want above and it is too much for lipolysis/ketosis, the high fat diet is probably pointless and may be dangerous depending on your insulin level
Should have said… “much too much”. My next post clarified the difference when you are low carb and only marginally out of ketosis.
And pointless, doesn’t mean dangerous.
I can only answer this from my own experience. When I wasn’t doing keto, I wasn’t low carb at all. I ate real food, that’s always been important to me, but didn’t restrict carbs at all. I’ve always included healthy fats even before my keto adventure, but never intentionally ate “high fat” during that time. My philosophy is, if I’m going to be a sugar burner, I want the best sources and plenty of it. If I’m going to be a fat burner, I want the best sources and plenty of it. I’m extremely active, gym rat type and compete in endurance races, so I don’t restrict fuel, whatever that may be. Ive been able to control my weight and lose weight under both models. I’m not sure if that’s useful, but maybe I could help more if you give more detail about your story…