Are the MCTs in Coconut Oil and Ghee a Great Panacea regardless of carbs?

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#21

Ah, now I understand, thank you! So there are MCTs of different lengths, gotcha.

Like many foods in their whole form, the sum is greater than its parts. My hunch is that the less-effective C12’s gut benefits do play a huge functional/complementary role for the neurons in the gut/enteric nervous system - as my boosting experiences with Coconut Oil and brain function, on just 1-2 tablespoons a day, have been distinct compared to no CO.

A whole other level of brain functionality, plus consistent recomposition/thermogenics despite the deck stacked against me (non-obese midlife female), etc. I’ve experimented with days off the Coconut oil (but with same level of fat from some combo of cream, butter, ghee, or bacon fat instead) and it’s quite a noticeable difference.

So, I’m inclined to embrace the full spectrum :rainbow: of MCTs then (the long, the medium, and the short) as playing roles in what Masterjohn PhD and Fife MD are talking about in providing ease of access to ketosis and a protective role regardless of carbs.

#22

I am unconvinced of that though. With a well nourished brain the body is far more complex and adaptable, and regenerative. Superfoods expedite functional health.

Chris Masterjohn PhD points out that the MCT ketosis trumps the body’s glucose-insulin carb-reaction trap - am not sure that applies to IR folks without dietary changes though. Bruce Fife MD uses the Coconut Oil protocol with great success for various conditions such as autism and Alhzheimer’s (a la Mary Newport MD, who the LCHF/keto Drs. Eades mentioned in their book Protein Power decades ago). despite dietary habits. Therein is the panacea - good fat w/ MCTs ensures ketosis and feeds the neurons in the brain and gut.

Have you read Nina Teicholz’s expose of the oxidative damage of vegetable oils in her book The Big Fat Surprise? The fact that the introduction of veg oils in India correlates to major heart disease and obesity as opposed to when they used traditional Ghee and Coconut Oil is compelling. Saturated fat + MCTs, rather than just saturated fat (lard, for example). Since concentrated butter fat (Ghee) and Coconut Oil provide MCTs (especially when a person’s intake is 2 tablespoons or more a day) it could be a panacea or at least a great ally for public health regardless of dietary lifestyle apparently. :thinking:

(Karim Wassef) #23

the fact that vegetable oils are destructive doesn’t mean that MCTs can fix insulin and glucose effects.

I’m sorry - but this is wishful thinking and I don’t see the evidence

In my own experimentation, MCT doesn’t reduce glucose from protein, much less from carbohydrates.

Try it yourself. The ketones may be useful for the brain, but that’s like saying exercise is useful… sure… but if you eat carbohydrates and exercise, it’s less beneficial than NOT eating carbohydrates and then exercise.

#24

While Masterjohn’s biochemistry nutritional presentation may be dense, and I’ve only reviewed briefly - it makes sense, in the context of fitness/biohacking - not as an approach to insulin resistance (which I made clear in the OP). Given certain fatty acids, the body has a tendency to be heretical and highly adaptable. Masterjohn has a ton of linked references and sources at the end of his podcast page on Episode 22.

I learned from Dr. Fife that the brain has its own immune system (and the gut/enteric nervous system also plays a vital role). The C12 Lauric Acid MCTs deliver antimicrobial/antivirals that boost this somehow. For stressed, brain-malnourished adults & children, getting BDNF-nourishing, good whole form MCTs into them address the chronic hyperactive immune response in the brain (which must certainly relate to the glands in the brain, such as the pituitary and pineal, which are connected to the entire hormonal system). And, as he puts it: "If the MCTs are combined with a typical low-carb diet the effects can even be enhanced.

As we see from the heart disease, obesity, and diabetes surge that happened after Indians started using veg oil instead of traditional Ghee and Coconut Oil, what is awful really can vary in its intensity depending on degree of carby food intake and extent of saturated fats - and especially MCTs - and other traditional superfoods like Ginger.

I’m crunching all the info. And I love the way I feel with 1-2 tblsp of Coconut Oil or Ghee a day. :heart_eyes:

(Karim Wassef) #25

MCT is great.

But if you carb up with MCT, you’re still compromising your health.

If you do decide to experiment with it, track your blood glucose and ketones so we can all learn

(Consensus is Politics) #26

Oh, 100% completely unable to comply with that! Lol… i searched for several hours and came up basically with nothing.

But my search wasnt a complete loss. I did find a nice video on the differences between LCT, SCT, and MCT’s. Basically it broke down how many CO atoms where in each one, and how MCT and SCTs get to skip the phase change and get right to the mitochondria.

Sorry I couldnt help you learn anything new, but thank you for pressuring me into a little more knowledge. :wink:

(Consensus is Politics) #27

Ok, wow. Ive already got an intellectual crush on @atomicspacebunny and now @SlowBurnMary joing my short list of brainiac crushes. I have this urge to throw out some kind of pseudoscience for them to tear apart in front of me. Makes me feel a little guilty, like trying to pick a favorite child or something.

I tried to communicate that without any creep factor. But then, I haven’t been know for my elegance with The written word. :roll_eyes:

Neutral :heart: ‘s all around.

Keto Vitae!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #28

MeToo! …without any creep factor double. :roll_eyes:

#29

Blanket statements and absolutism aside - and specific to the fat-adapted non-IR folks near or at maintenance: as a case in point, carb intake levels among the keto physicians for Phase 2-3 go up to total 100-150gm/day for maintenance. That’s not “carbing up”. A two cup serving of noodles or rice is 80g, for example, and can be lots of fun for one’s OMAD or one’s second meal when one’s first meal had 6 carbs, lolol. :thinking:

Never did I tout what I consider the absurd/self-destructive practice of “carbing up” on junk food on the weekend (a la Tim Ferris and others) and following it up with Hangover Monday. I stand for celebrating life drama-free.

And that may mean abundantly enjoying Ghee & Coconut Oil as allies in maintaining a ketogenic way of metabolism, anti-inflammation, and bloat abatement - esp with higher levels of carbs in maintenance which may BOOST continued recomp! Those guys in the Indian study that lost two inches off their bellies in two weeks without changing their likely high-high carb diets did it on 2+ tlbsp of Ghee added daily to a typical diet of around 300g carbs per day. That bellly bloat and fat is the most dangerous kind, and this likely kick-started further self-care! Some other dudes in Silicon Valley do it by buying expensive isolated MCT oil and taking just a teaspoon a day. Increasing blood levels of ketones to therapeutic levels is healing, and traditional fats like Ghee and Coconut Oil delivering protective MCTs is a wonderful support for some of us.

For those that aren’t IR and aren’t compulsive eaters or emotional addicts or other kinds of addicts, celebratory food flex and also fasting is the spice of life & longevity imho - there is no wagon to fall off of if one is anchored in satiety, and a keto steadfast state of mind. :star_struck:

There is such a thing as metabolic flex and a holy cultivation of antifragility - a way of life, not a dogma. Extra nuances to this for the over 50s who feel better than we did in our 20s :wink:

(Diane) #30

Interesting idea!

(Ethan) #31

False in the weight-loss context. The purpose of a ketogenic diet is to lower insulin by inducing ketosis.

#32

Context in my OP is non-obese non-IR - so keto has never really been about weight loss for me, it’s about fat loss/recomp, and vitality. However, the Indian guys that lost 2 inches of belly in two weeks were likely encouraged to keep going on the insulin-spiking reduction path!

(Jon) #33

Tbh - MCT works just wonders for me, take 4 tbsp extra when my colon has slowed down :wink:

(Consensus is Politics) #34

Thoroughly enjoying this until the cheap shot at the end.

oof! :woozy_face:

(Consensus is Politics) #35

Brave… very brave indeed. I think that may be what did in Kenny of Southpark.

#36

What cheap shot? Speaking as an over 50 who feels better than I did in my 20s - lots of nuances that I’m grateful for.

(Consensus is Politics) #37

I read that completely differently. My recollection of it was a comment on 20’s getting more out of it than us old timers. I must have been multitasking and had just one too many distractions. I just went back and read it again. My apologies, I agree, feeling better for sure.

Now excuse me, its getting difficult to type with my foot in my mouth. :man_facepalming:t2:

(M) #38

I have a question, which is slightly off topic.

Say you don’t want to lose weight. You would like to either maintain or gain weight ketogenically. Would the MCT fats in the same amount of calories provide more energy to keep your body from losing weight than say the same amount of fat calories of avocado or nuts or lard because your body may be able to get the energy out of MCTs easier than the other fats?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #39

Fats are fats. The length of the chain of a fatty acid is what dictates how many ATP molecules it will yield, or so I understand. The mitochondria have enzymes that divide the chain up, and then they run the pieces through the Krebs cycle. I’m not up on all the details, but that’s the general picture.

Whether they stop when the pieces have been turned into ketones, or whether they continue on until the fat has become nothing more than carbon dioxide and water, depends partly on whether the cell is part of a muscle (more likely to continue, because it needs energy) or a liver cell (more likely to be making ketones, to share with cells that can use them). The availability of substrate is also a factor, especially in the liver, since it uses that availability to decide whether to stop at the ketone stage or keep going.

(Michael) #40

I think the way to look at it is that MCT oil forces you to either use it as ketone bodies quickly or expel, while other fats get processed differently and that allows more options.