April 2026 Intermitten/Extended Fasting All Welcome

(Bob M) #7

Weird. After eating, my blood sugar continues to drop. Down to 72 from mid to high 80s.

(Bob M) #8

I’m always amazed at how quickly I return to >100 blood sugar in the mornings when I eat the day before. Was less than 100 when I got up, drove to work (no coffee or tea) and was 106. It’s now 11am, and I’m at 97.

My body just wants higher blood sugar in the morning, and there’s not a lot I can do about it.

#9

I had a pretty fine OMAD-ish day today, close to fat fast except I just had to drink :smiley: I am hopeful for Hungary now! :smiley: :hungary: Things got better than expected!

And I totally try to go for lunch skipping for now on. These changes in my country triggers me a big desire to change my life too, finally, for the better. Lots of exercise, better diet (especially timing wise), hopefully an EF soon!

(CynthiaQ) #10

Just a note to say that at the end of last month I finished the 5-day Fung fast, which was a modified fast: let’s say with “training wheels” (they call them “fasting friends”): the inclusion of bone broths and small amts of veg. I didn’t go for the solid foods but did avail myself of broth daily.

I do have to say I felt that -for me- it was truly a reset, and that I don’t have the same attitude towards food as I previously did. Now it’s hard for me to find something I really feel I have to eat. I can take or leave all of it or any of it. That’s an interesting and novel place for me to be.

I don’t think I would make this a monthly thing, as some of the “Fasting Method” people do, but I might shoot for every other month.

While still overweight, I’ve always been tendentially a OMAD person, albeit with a bad nightly snacking habit. Have been mostly onboard the low-carb train since last November, in support of my husband with T2 and prostate cancer, who’s trying to right his metabolic ship.

A big thing I learned from the 5-day fast was the importance of SALT, which may be overlooked in terms of satiety as well as in terms of bodily requirements. If you’re not eating, while still peeing out a lot of salt, that salt still needs to be replaced.

(CynthiaQ) #11

Maybe it’s not weird? It takes energy to execute digestion, so…
It could be that overall trends are more important than minute-to-minute readings, but I’m new to all this.

#12

I’m doing a sardine ‘fast’ and it is enjoyable. Does it count as a fast?

(Doug) #13

At least somewhat… There certainly are benefits to such a change in eating, though not all the way to the extent that water fasting brings, i.e. autophagy for one thing.

#14

My understanding is that it is a hypocaloric way to eat over a period of at least 3 sunsets. The sardines provide enough protein to spare lean body mass. But the amounts eaten, maybe 2 or 3 tins per day (about 50g to 80g of protein), is still low protein enough, g of dietary protein per kg of body weight, to stimulate autophagy? Especially if a person gets into a therapeutic ketosis state of blood ketones between 1.0 mmol/L to 2.0 mmol/L with a Glucose Ketone Index (GKI) less than 4 to indicate the start of their fast. That therapeutic nutritional ketosis, low GKI, being a strong stimulator of autophagy*.

*https://mywaterfasts.com/RepairLevels.php

(KM) #15

I started a sardine fast yesterday too, planning not to eat anything else til May. We’ll see. My keto’s been pretty lax for a while, I’m used to picking at whatever low carb items are lying around.

Actually not quite accurate, I had one can of sardines and one can of tuna yesterday because it was in the cabinet. I think the tuna doesn’t violate the principles of this kickstart, they just don’t use it because of the potential mercury content. Skin and bones in the sardines probably add minerals too. I’ll try to stick with them from here on.

(KM) #16

Can I ask how often you eat? I couldn’t find anything about that. Once a day? Or spread out? I’m sticking with two cans per day. I’m about 116 pounds, so hopefully that’s not too much for autophagy.

(Bob M) #17

You’re lucky if you can find sardines with skins and bones. I can’t find those, at least easily. Have to order them or go to a fancier store.

How many sardines do you eat? As many as you want? Or just a few cans?

Since sardines are (relatively) high in PUFAs, ketones should increase more than say without them.

Edit: some people eat more cans (one ate 16 cans in 3 days), and others only eat 1-2 cans per day.

(Doug) #18

I really don’t think so.

GKI may be a decent indicator in people who come from a high-carbohydrate diet; there, it’s essentially just seeing how far into a fast they are.

But for people eating ketogenically, the GKI is already going to be low, so going by a given GKI number won’t necessarily tell us anything.

Sardines are high in protein, and high in the amino acid leucine, the most potent inhibitor of autophagy there is.

https://mywaterfasts.com/RepairLevels.php - the timeframe listed here is pretty good, assuming a total fast (or one without protein and carbs).

This is the first stage of autophagy, typically beginning on day two of your water fast.

– One starts fasting. The stomach empties, then the small intestine. ~8 to 14 hours for most of us. Then there’s a “post-absorptive phase” where blood sugar declines, hormonal balances shift, and finally the body realizes “Hey - the pipeline is empty.” Somewhere around 18 to 24 hours into the fast, and this is when a lot of people start feeling real hunger.

Glycogen depletion begins. This is enough energy for a day or two, though it’s not all going to be used up. After that, the body is really going to start scavenging for energy - and that’s what we want - stored fat and old, faulty, messed-up protein structures to be consumed.

Deep Autophagy - Typically achieved by the end of day two, this level targets neurological conditions.

I think “by the end of day two” is optimistic. For a lot of people, it’s going be 2 to 4 days to really get there. But certainly - after two days the stomach and small intestine are empty, glycogen is depleted, and the body is in ‘scour and clean-up mode,’ as well as accessing fat stores.

Maximum Autophagy - The most powerful level, typically reached by day three.

I’d shift it to day 3 or 4, but yes - really should be getting into it on the third day. Also think it’s more complex than that - it keeps increasing through 5 or 6 days, at least, if not vastly longer. All the mTOR, AMPK, insulin, glucagon, etc., stuff keeps getting more favorable for autophagy.

In a mouse, autophagy keeps increasing until the mouse is halfway or more to death from starvation. It would be good to have such human studies.

I’m not at all saying the ‘sardine fast’ is a bad thing. I think it’s great - should have many benefits. It’s fairly similar to the 'Newcastle Diet," for instance (Dr. Roy Taylor, Newcastle University in the U.K., 15 years ago). A little lower in calories, but I bet the effect is the same - lots of improvements. The Newcastle diet reversed type 2 diabetes in a substantial portion of the people on it.

(KM) #19

I found them at Costco, Wild Planet, $10 for 6 cans. They’re “lightly smoked” … Who knows with what, but they’re tasty.

(KM) #20

I have my doubts too, but I’ve had some issues with water fasts - hair loss and back pain. Hoping to avoid these. Curious to see how this goes. I did OMAD today, so 23 hours actual fasting. Definitely in good ketosis now, around 6.0.

#21

I never saw a different one here… If I remember correctly (but I think I do). I never liked sardines. Edible but not particularly good, boring too. And all of them has sunflower/rapeseed oil anyway. But I will go and look next time, it’s not such a bad idea for a tiny meal… Sometimes I am just hungry and don’t care for joy. Rare but happens.

I couldn’t do this sardine fast as the protein intake is impossible for me. I need to stay below 20-30g protein if I don’t want to be around 130 or more (rarely 100g is possible too). Protein makes me hungry and it won’t stop until I get that. Well theoretically I could just eat a ton of sardines but I would hate it way earlier, I need tastier food and variety.
I prefer fat fasts but I said that a few times :slight_smile: Enjoyable, flexible (I did it on vegetarian keto and on carnivore and I have lots of options), super cheap (around $1 per day? depends on my choices), big calorie deficit, no cooking, simplicity… :slight_smile: AND a way for me to eat as fatty as I want (in percentages, the fat amount is smallish but it’s enough).

Lately I do 1-2MAD but when I track, even 2MAD shows I eat very little (for me)! So I must have a deficit and indeed, I have started to lose weight. Great but I keep trying to skip lunch, it’s still surprisingly difficult. I really need to stop drinking coffee too, I blame that for most of my problems regarding lunch skipping.
And I plan to do fun experiments again. Like a lean day. I feel ready for some really low-fat days (for me, even now that I am quite able to eat a meal below 65% fat). Especially in grams.
I came a long way. I remember my early low-carb times when I just couldn’t stay below 200g fat longer term (I missed fat very much for years). And now I can go below 100g! That’s enough, I do need some energy from my food. But I still want fasting days this year, I am stubborn about that, just won’t force it.

I will take it more seriously in May! May is the last month when I have a chance to stay close to carnivore too. I am not so much into that but it could be a useful challenge. A big one considering my last months but I am sure I can go stricter for a few weeks.

#22

When I’m keto or carnivore it was two meals per day (from our chats in the carnivore thread). With the sardines eating, I am OMAD at about 3pm. The 3pm comes from Dr. Boz hacking the night hours for nutritional ketosis in the morning despite the waking cortisol effect. I think Dr. Boz advises for her female clients especially to eat when and how much you want on the sardine diet. I reckon she is right, it can be a real challenge to eat 2000 or 3000 calories of sardines. Maybe it’s do-able with the oil. But satiety is a good guide. Dr. D’Agostino’s apple cider vinegar augmentation made it very accessible for me.

I’m eating one can of sardines and one can of mackerel in olive oil. I add 2 to 3 tblsp of Apple Cider Vinegar, and that helps digest the sardines for me. I also add 1 tblsp of MCT oil. It’s quite satiating. I might add another can or two of the fish as I am 6 foot 5 and built like a brick outhouse. In the morning I have two cups of coffee about 3 hours apart (habit and addiction).

My morning blood ketones are about 0.7/0.8 mmol/L and blood glucose between 5.0 to 5.4mmol/L. So, that’s a GKI of 7, which is some autophagy. But serial blood tests (finger prick) show a rise in ketones and before the sardine meal my blood ketones are 1.4/1.6 mmol/L and blood glucose heading down to 4.5. So that lands me in the GKI range of 1 to 4, which is the same degree of autophagy as a water fast.

It is a workable alternate for me to get to some of the same body physiology effects. To the point that I have forgotten how long I have been eating like this. I think I passed the 72 hours I set out to do. But I am feeling good, so I might run it on a bit.

#23

Dr. D’Agostino points out that high ketones will stimulate paradoxical insulin release. This was from his work on ketone esthers as supplements. So he aims his sardine eating to land him in the 1.0 to 2.0 mmol/L. (Dr. Georgia Edes recently commented that ketosis of between 1.0 to 3.0 is very adequate therapeutically for some mental health disorders.) That paradoxical insulin could drive hunger and cravings?

#24

Thanks Doug. This is great stuff to read and learn from.

(Bob M) #25

Those are good. I forgot they had skin. Do they have bones too?

(KM) #26

They do indeed.