Appetite during a fat fast? Looking for experiences

#1

I’m looking into doing a 3-5 day fat fast to hopefully get things back in order. While fat adapted and still sticking to ketogenic macros, I’m finding myself very hungry. I’ll typically get around 125g fat/200g protein. While protein typically has always been much filling for me, I’m wondering if the shift of around 0%carb/75% fat/25% protein will help curb my appetite. This basically has me eating eggs with mayo/butter or ground beef with mayo/butter.

I’m curious to others experiences if this helped curb appetite and cravings? I will also be doing no keto sweeteners, as that really seems to trigger my cravings.

Thank you for feedback

(Ethan) #2

There are several strategies that you can use, depending on the goal of the fast. If the goal of the fast is atophagy, then you have far more limitations on actions you can take vs. if your goal is lowering insulin for as long as possible for, say, weight loss. This is the scale I use for things you do:

  1. Eat salt.
  2. Drink water
    -----------Everything above this line is probably fine for atophagy
  3. Drink black coffee
  4. Drink plain tea (green, white, black, herbal), but no cream
    -----------Everything above this line is potentially ok for most fasting benefits, but may or may not affect autophagy.
  5. Add 2 tbps of heavy cream to coffee/tea
  6. Add a little MCT oil to heavy cream/coffee
  7. Drink bone broth
    -----------Everything above this line is fine for lowering insulin for as long as possible, such as for weight loss
  8. Eat a pickle or cucumber
  9. Have some chia seeds soaked in water
    -----------Everything above this may be fine for lowering insulin, but the later items could negatively affect your efforts.
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

As far as coffee is concerned, it either stimulate autophagy or completely shuts it off, depending on whom you listen to; the same for ketosis.

It can’t be the caffeine that is the problem, because I have never heard anyone say anything, one way or the other, about any form of caffeinated tea, so the effect—if any—has to lie in whatever other chemicals coffee contains that tea does not. I have come to the conclusion that no one actually understands the effect of coffee on the body, if the advice about it is so contradictory.

Caffeine is supposed to have been developed as an insecticide or insect repellent to protect the plant. But chemically, it belongs to a class called methylxanthines, which also includes theobromine (present in a small amount in coffee but highly available in chocolate), theophylline, and aminophylline. All methylxanthines help stimulate proper respiration, and the latter two are used medically to relieve respiratory distress (though there are other drugs that work even better for the purpose).

(Ethan) #4

Yep. That is why I included it in the list of things that may or may not affect autophagy, but is potentially, but not always, ok.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

I should probably mention that, regardless of whatever the real situation with coffee turns out to be, they’re going to have to pry my mug out of my cold, dead hands, lol! (The same for tea, as well, to a lesser extent.) :grin::coffee::bacon:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

If you’re doing only a 3-5 day fast, just go with water. Initial hunger subsides, especially now that you’re at least somewhat fat adapted. When I started keto I did so with a 4-day water fast - this coming after many years of a high carb SAD diet. The hunger peaked on day 2 and by the morning of day 3 was gone. I often describe what I refer to as ‘carb hunger’ being like the flesh eating plant in Little Shop of Horrors which demands incessantly “Feed me. Feed me. FEED ME!” While I refer to ‘keto hunger’ as the company accountant announcing at the monthly board meeting that outgo exceeded income last month and the company had to dip into reserves to make up the difference.

Alternatively:

(Robin) #7

Yeah, same.

#8

What went out of order?

How long are you keto now?

Why are ya hungry? tons of reasons LOL and all based on what ya eat on your keto plan.

Once I know that I got recommendations, til then no use posting much to you just yet.

#9

@Fangs

What went out of order is I began eating excess. I got to a good weight, then introduced some keto friendly desserts. From there, I began thinking of food way too much, was much hungrier, and the occasional treat became more frequent. When I say get things back in order, I mean get to the place where we weight is more where I want it, and maintenance is easier, given my appetite and cravings are under better control. I feel a very limited diet such as a fat fast, egg diet, beef & fat type approach may fast track the cravings to go away and get appetite under better control, just given the no carbs or sweeteners, and much limitation. I tend to do well with an all in approach like this.

#10

Sounds like you’re more like me, fat tastes awesome but doesn’t fill you, and protein does. For people like us PSMFs are more suited than fat fasts for quick fat loss.

#11

yea I get this :slight_smile: I think alot of us tend to push that envelope a bit wheb we hit maintenance and ‘see just what it does to us’ LOL

I don’t even think you need a fat fast really. I think you just need to drop the keto desserts and just go back to basics on keto eating. You know, keep protein and good fats your main focus, kinda just go back into that very basic keto eating again and your body should even out pretty quick just eating basic good keto with heavy protein. I mean if a fat fast is what you want then go for it, but I think you just walking back onto a basic tight plan would probably be just as effective ya know.

for most of us good protein intake and good fat along with it is the cravings buster. What puts us back in that sweet spot and kills cravings. From what you wrote I don’t think you are too bad at all truly :slight_smile: I think you got a good handle on this, go back to basics, eat up good proteins and just give it a few days to rebalance again for you! You got this!!

#12

I have found that keeping my fat to AT LEAST 75% per day is the key, FOR ME, for having no cravings. If I end up at 70% with more protein, I don’t feel satisfied and I crave fruit. I have to continually think fat, fat, fat. I eat macadamia nuts, sour cream and cheese to help this. I just posted a new thread about my experiences with eating this much fat. I find it quite difficult, both physically and mentally, but when I do eat this way, there are no cravings.

I would be very careful of the sweeteners. I ONLY use stevia liquid and I try to limit it. I do believe that other sweeteners can create cravings.

#13

@EquiPro Do you track calories as well? What are your carbs and protein amounts at? I find calorie dense fats make it easy to rack up the calories. And again, I find protein provides better satiety than fat. An example would be 200 calories of egg whites is basically pure protein vs. 2 tablespoons of butter is pure fat. The egg whites would be more filling for me.

I absolutely agree with those saying the sweeteners trigger cravings. It was the keto desserts that ultimately did me in. I’ve taken an aggressive approach to help the cravings and appetite. Doing 5 days of nothing but eggs, fat, and black coffee. While I’m completely aware the egg fast diet is gimmicky, I do see value in limiting my diet temporarily to help the appetite. I’m not abiding by the “egg fast” rules specifically. Just doing OMAD with eggs + mayo or butter. 3 days in and my appetite definitely is in better control. I am experimenting with 75% fat/25% protein/0% carbs for 5 days. So far, it’s been good.

#14

Carb manager tracks calories, protein, fat and carbs. So, for yesterday: 2098 gross calories/ 1305 adjusted calories after adding in exercise. 172.5 g of fat (72.7 %), 128.7 g of protein (24.1 %), 17.1 g net carbs (3.2 %). The reason that I still use carb manager is to keep myself on track. I tend to slide on the protein and end up eating too much and not enough fat.

With regards to protein, I could eat A DOZEN (and have) egg whites and I would still be hungry. I eat 1 ounce of butter and I’m full and done. For me, lots of fat is the key.

#15

A dozen egg whites is so little calories, of course it’s not enough if we are truly hungry and we aren’t used to super tiny meals…
A dozen eggs probably rarely enough for me for my first (and potentially only) meal and eggs were my most satiating items before I started to eat meat. Fatty pork or ruminant is the winner, it seems but I will make more experiment in the future :slight_smile: I usually eat all my staples for all bigger meals, eggs may be wonderful but a bit boring alone.

I probably need both protein and fat in decent amounts (100g from both may be enough even if I am hungry but I often needs more than that) but it’s a bit more complicated as certain fats don’t satiate me and it’s the case with certain protein sources too, it seems. As I was super hungry after 11 chicken thighs/drumsticks with skin and a bit added fat a few weeks ago and I figured out that it should have been enough macro and calorie wise.

I never experimented with egg whites, I only used them as extra meal, they are satiating enough in that role. My first meal should be way more substantial, that’s where 12 eggs is just a nice base.