Anyone here have experience with Himilayan Tartar buckwheat in flour or otherwise?

(B Creighton) #1

It is supposed to be full of phytonutrients, and has no gluten.

(Robin) #2

Well, you stumped me. As per usual.

(B Creighton) #3

Well, it’s apparently kind of rare now, but supposedly at one time was grown in the colonies. My interest lies in it potentially being a nutritious source for keto bread - although it is probably slightly bitter. But you know Americans had to eventually go with whitened and blander everything… It also apparently is not quite as bountiful as other buckwheat or grains. It has quercetin, lots of rutin and even fisetin. There is apparently a source for it now out of NY. Just wondering…

Well, with further examination I found that it is apparently about 100% higher in carbs than regular buckwheat, so not a great keto bread source… although I am still interested in it.


Oh my, I have heard about many things in my life, being quite curious but never about these… :flushed:

(B Creighton) #5

Taking you as being serious, I know a few things about these. These are polyphenols. Quercetin is a zinc ionophore. Apparently many of the polyphenols are, but quercetin particularly. That means it chelates zinc ions and transports them through cell membranes. This is thought to make cells more resistant to viruses, as zinc can interfere with their replication process in the cell. I used quercetin and zinc supplements when I got covid. I had very light symptoms for only two and a half days. Quercetin and fisetin have been shown to either neutralize or kill senescent cells in the body. They both have antioxidant effects. In repeated studies fisetin has been shown to extend the life span of mice by about 10%. I don’t think there are any long-term studies in humans, but there are people who take it for possible life-extension reasons.
Rutin has had many claims made about it, but probably one of the best demonstrated is its effects to improve the cardiovascular system, where it seems to have an antioxidant effect, and augments nitric oxide levels. Tartary buckwheat has extremely high levels of rutin - perhaps more concentrated than any other food. Individuals with cardiovascular disease may particularly benefit from rutin.

(Bob M) #6

Where is the location in NY?

Does it taste at all like buckwheat? Back when I was on Pritikin (very low fat), I really liked buckwheat.

(Bob M) #7

Found it:

Bit carby, though this is for the flour, so don’t know how that translates to what you would actually eat:

(B Creighton) #8

This is the only known source of the flour I am aware of in the states:
There are apparently some local NY farmers contracted to raise the tartary buckwheat for them. Whether the buckwheat is accessible through them, I have no idea. I think they are in the Appalachians.

I have looked for a good local source of buckwheat bread, and have not found any. :sleepy:
Tartary buckwheat apparently has a somewhat pungent taste which comes from all the polyphenols it has - it can be hundreds of times what common buckwheat has. I have never tried it before, so despite the cost, I thought I might order some to see if I would actually use it. If it is not disgusting, I might incorporate it by baking bread. Right now, I am basically eating two slices per day of some kind of organic wheat bread - sprouted wheat, etc. Yesterday, my blood pressure was 107/73, so it looks like low carb is sufficient for me if I cut out the processed foods(seed oils) and excess sugar. I may do a brief stint of keto this winter though to drop more subcutaneous fat.

(Bob M) #9

Not a bad way to do it, if you think about how we likely ate seasonally. In the winter, we most likely relied on very low carb, nearly all meat, if not all meat.

(B Creighton) #10

That was my apparent experience last winter. I kept the house cooler, and did my weight training in my scivvies to expose my body to cool air. This has been shown to increase the amount of brown fat we have - which is metabolically active - and actually helps us to burn more ketones, and thus fat. It is a cycle - the increased ketones serve as signalling molecules which stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis in fat cells, which in turn burn more ketones, which in turn burns more fat. Our brown fat tends to be around our neck and shoulders, so that area in particular benefits from cold exposure. So yeah, annually stimulating our brown fat production, is going to make us more metabolically flexible - better able to stay warm, etc.
However, I don’t view my Germanic ancestors as carnivore. They weren’t. They grew cabbage and made sauerkraut, which they ate in the winter. They learned to make other fermented foods. One of the fermenting agents was bacillus subtilis, which made vitamin K2 for them. I believe vitamin K2 helps prevent atherosclerosis by preventing calcium deposition. I also believe our SAD is totally lacking in vitamin K2, which we have evolved to need. We can get K2 in a carnivore diet if we eat grass fed beef and naturally fed chicken, but the grain fed animals are also deficient in it.

(Bob M) #11

I’m about 72% Eastern European, which also used fermented cabbage. I remember my great-grandmother (from Czechoslovakia) making sauerkraut.

I think it depended on where you were and what access you had to vegetables/fruits/tubers and the like. If you had access to sauerkraut in the winter, you’d eat it. But how much could you really make and how long would it last? In CT, where I live, it’s been below freezing for mornings for at least a few weeks. You’re probably talking 8-9 months (October - May or June) without access to many plants.

I think the best bet would be to grow tubers such as potatoes, as they tend to last a while and are high calorie. Something like salad greens would be useless: they have no calories; they get eaten by everything; they don’t last at all.

Nuts might work, though you really have to watch them, as they can also have high amounts of anti-nutrients.

I think about this every winter: what would I be eating now if it was 300+ years ago? In New England, maybe corn? In Eastern Europe, I have no idea.

(B Creighton) #12

I’m using the term Germanic in a very loose, Roman way - to me it includes most of Europe. The Goths were Germanic. It originally was a mix of peoples from northern Europe. The Saxons moved into England, the Visigoths into Spain, the Franks into France, the Suevi into Portugal, etc.

After the discovery of the Americas, potatoes became a big thing in the UK, esp Ireland. Potatoes are actually quite nutricious, and are a complete protein source, but now I eat much less of them due to their high starch. Nevertheless, they are good winter food - all the root vegetables tend to be.

I love nuts, and yes, they are a good winter food. I mix mine with seeds - esp sunflower seeds - which were popular in southern Europe. My favorite is pecan, and they are generally good all around. I use almonds, but not at a higher ratio than the rest of the seeds and nuts in the mix. I use dates or raisins to sweeten the mix and raw coconut, which sweetens to a lesser extent. This last year I also started adding pumpkin seeds largely as a better source of methionine. This mix keeps all winter with no problem. It kept me all summer too. But, I will make a new batch for the winter. When doing keto I would actually eat about a cup of this mix once to twice per week. It was probably enough to pull some out of ketosis though. I think my carb-keto threshold is about 60 gr of carbs daily.

But anyway, I agree with you. I see no reason to work against the natural cycle we evolved to survive with. Ketosis is obvlously a winter survival mechanism. I see no problem cycling in and out of ketosis with winter. Based on what I have learned, I now feel it is the best time to build brown fat up while doing keto. However, I do believe that now that I am older low carb is the way to go the rest of the year. Being older, I no longer seem to have the metabolic flexibility necessary to avoid metabolic diseases such as heart disease without a low sugar, low carb diet. So, although I will cycle off keto again, it will only be to a LCMF diet.


I guess people used to make enough for the whole winter, cabbage is easy to store anyway… Just like root vegetables.

I don’t care about such things anymore, my on/off carnivore seemed to work this far but maybe I need to look up a few things later…? Oh no, not until I don’t have problems :slight_smile: I probably never will be a real carnivore anyway but a few months every winter sounds doable eventually… We will see.

Probably all kinds of grains and vegs and meat and dairy and eggs. Okay, it depends on the class, my anchestors were peasants (not rich but not exactly poor ones) in Hungary (I don’t know how far that goes but peasants with some very great black soil didn’t wander so it’s possible they were there since ages) and ate everything. I only have stories about recent things like 80 years ago but probably not much changed compared to before… Except they surely ate less added sugar before…

I for one am glad I can choose my food now (to some extent, we can’t spend our full income on food and it leaves us with cheaper stuff for staples), my body doesn’t work ideally with “everything”. It wants extreme low non-animal carbs and the season doesn’t matter. I always want high-fat high protein very low carbs, it’s another matter I can’t resist my fruits and I have fruit seasons half the year (and there are fruits to find in winter too but that’s not much, to put it lightly)… My anchestors ate lots of fruits. It’s not healthy for me so I keep them low - but frequent in fruit seasons.

(Kirk Wolak) #14

The key thing to realize is “phytonutrient” means “Nutrition for Plants”.
So Heme Iron would NOT be. Since it is what humans need.

When you realize that is a marketing buzzword to make something as simple as “it’s like a vitamin to the plants” sound like it’s GOOD for people. They succeeded.

Because I don’t think you need ANY Phytonutrients to be healthy… Unless you’re a plant!
And therefore, it’s in my AVOID list.

(B Creighton) #15

Of course that is up to you, but I clarified that the phytonutrients I was talking about are polyphenols. There is plenty of science showing benefits from various polyphenols. There are many other phytonutrients like vitamins C & E, minerals, proteins, etc that I think no scientist would say are on the avoid list. There are some I seek out, but are probably still disputed such as MCTs. There are things from plants that are on my avoid list, but technically, they are not plant nutrients but part of the plant defense mechanism. These include lectins, but most lectins can be eliminated through cooking. There are some other phytonutrients I try to avoid such as oxalic acid. However, at least at the levels I consume it, it doesn’t seem to bother me. Anyway, I agree not all phytonutrients are desirable. Some such as raffinose can be addressed with the right knowledge. I eat enough meat to have plenty of iron, and do. In fact at times I’ve had to try to reduce my iron, but thanks.