Anybody being picky about the Vaccine you take?


(bulkbiker) #21

But you can’t know that as the phase 3 trials will not be complete until 2023 and long term we have zero idea what side effects the treatment may bring over time.


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #22

It is possible, however, to take an educated guess. I’d venture to guess that most of the decisions you have made in your life were based on such best guesses, and not because you knew for sure.

And in the larger sense, scientifically speaking, certainty is impossible in any case. It looks as though Einstein’s improvements on Newton are correct, but we don’t know that, and someone could still come along with further improvements to our view of things. All we can say from a scientific point of view is that "the data all tend to suggest . . . "


(bulkbiker) #23

Once we have the data yes… 2023 is still a while away though…


(Karen) #24

Believe me I feel grateful and happy that I have had the vaccine… we all know what the effects of having covid can be .


(Joey) #25

Perhaps this 7 minute video might help clear up some misconceptions…


(I admin it, that’s a terrible pun.) #26

I appreciate that video. I think it did a good job helping define what the numbers we read in the headlines really mean.

It did make a good point about the purpose of the vaccines. They’re not about keeping us getting infected with SARS-CoV-2, but rather keeping us from having serious symptoms from COVID-19.

While I would like to think of numbers as being more finite (2+2=4), it’s obvious that they can be “massaged” a bit.

I do take one exception to the video though, they said that in the vaccine group no individuals had died or were hospitalized from COVID-19. While maybe being technically true, no deaths or hospitalizations of COVID-19, there have been numerous reports of deaths and injuries of individuals following their vaccination.

I think that has to be taken into consideration.

I’m fine for anyone who wants to take the vaccine if they choose to, but I think they need to have all the information in front of them, in order to make an informed decision on what’s best for them.


#27

As somebody with Scalp Psoriasis, my thoughts exactly! I watched a video from a professor in molecular genetics on it and her description made sense from the other stuff I’ve heard from the “officials” on how it’d work, with another side to it. It’ll take that protein and put it in us, because of how it works it’ll be everywhere. If we’re exposed and the switch get’s flipped, our immune systems will attack, but it’ll be EVERYWHERE! Which is why I think the whole discussion of autoimmune began. I can’t find much in the mainsteam other than them saying it doesn’t cause autoimmune issues, but if it doesn’t (or didn’t in trials) why’s it being addressed so much?

I try not to crank down my foil hat (too) tight… but somethings there at some levels.


(Ethan) #28

I specifically chose not J&J because I have specific concerns with clot risk if I got Covid, as well as risk transmitting to my 9-year-old son, who had multiple autoimmune conditions and isn’t old enough for a vaccine. J&J had poor efficacy relative to Moderna and Pfizer against wild-type Covid, and while J&J had good efficacy against severe illness for all types, blood clots were not considered severe. Moreover, in the vaccine group of the trial, there were 15 thromboembolic events, but 0 in the control group! While that wasn’t statistically significant, I didn’t want that risk.

I got my second Moderna shot friday


(Ethan) #29

There are many vaccines that deliver instructions on how to build a spike protein from a package that isn’t the original vector. In fact, the J&J vaccine does it though an adenovirus vector. True, mRNA technology isn’t tested and certified in this use for longterm conclusion, though


#30

Do you have a reference for that by any chance @EZB ? I had read that there were 10 instances of clotting in the placebo group but now I’m wondering…


(Ethan) #31

Yep

However, there was insufficient evidence to determine casual relationships to the vaccine for vaccine versus placebo imbalances in thromboembolic events (14 vs 10, respectively) and tinnitus (6 vs 0), FDA technical staff said.


#32

I never wanted to take the vaccination as I feel we need years not months to see any adverse effects, but I’ve had my first Astra Zeneca shot and look forward to the 2nd.

At the end of the day my children are on the other side of the world living in countries with closed borders. If I’m going to see them again we need to get this under control. Look at Europe!!


(bulkbiker) #33

For the vast majority of people who have had COVID it looks like very little effect. I’m happy to take my chance.


(Jeff S) #34

I have mixed feelings and probably not entirely rational or consistent feelings about all of this.

On one hand - I hate taking any kind of medicine at all. Even things like Tylenol. I figure while it may be technically “safe” it probably isn’t exactly good for you. Of course, after surgery I took pain killers and when I pulled a back muscle and couldn’t move I took muscle relaxants. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. So I have some ill-defined mental threshold that has to be met.

I rarely get flu shots or shingles vaccine. Though I do get the Tetanus vaccine every 10 years.

I’m also a bit of a germaphobe. I’ve been carrying around hand sanitizer and avoiding germy situations for years. I guess I’ve been training for this pandemic my whole life!

While my risk for covid is fairly low (age 60) but no underlying conditions, I have family members who are high risk. So I got the vaccine (happened to be Pfizer) - though I waited until the high risk ones all had appointments first.

There are never any guarantees. Has anyone tested how safe it is to mix peanut butter, mayo and sauerkraut or what the long term risks are? Show me the research.

Bottom line is that everyone has to asses their own situation and make a risk calculation. Like most of life, it is not black and white, and if you think it is, you are overlooking the edge cases.


#35

Yup! The majority of healthy people that get it don’t even realize that they had and beat it.


(Ethan) #36

Yes, but their friends who are high risk die…


(bulkbiker) #37

That’s a pretty big assumption about asymptomatic transmission which so far as I am aware has yet to be proven…


(Ethan) #38

It’s really not a big assumption. The efficacy of J&J was 57% in South Africa. It was 72% in USA. Therefore, transmission is possible because infection is more possible.


(bulkbiker) #39

Asymptomatic transmission which is what you are suggesting is so far as I know completely unproven to happen…

If you aren’t ill then how can you pass something on?
The efficacy of various vaccines is irrelevant.


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #40

That asymptomatic transmission of disease is possible is an indisputable fact, Typhoid Mary being the most famous example. She never exhibited symptoms of the disease, so far as anyone was able to document, yet she certainly passed it on.

While the actual rate of asymptomatic transmission of COVID might need to be verified, I would strongly doubt that it is zero. Most communicable diseases have a pro-dromal phase in which the patient is asymptomatic but capable of transmitting the infection.