Another set of beginner question : )


(Sebas Tien) #1

Good morning

More question in that exploring experience

So, if i understand correctly,

The aim is 20g or carb or less per day, protein quantity won t impact you from reaching ketosis. I m assuming it 20 g net carb, not pure carb?

Keto stripe are not accurate also to tell you if you are into ketosis. I ll get a koto-mojo tester. I “should” be in ketosis by now, but i see no “signs”, no keto flu, no keto breath, … But i do see now that i have no more stomach burning feeling like i use to have when eating lots of carbs…

I m using total keto diet as my tracking apps and macro calculator. It from the guy that wrote keto for dummy. Is there a better app out there?

If you don t change / restrict the amount of calories you eat from your previous carb heavy diet and switch to keto, what would happen? Would you still loose weight?

I drink a lot if water daily, like 2-3 l, but it sparkling water (no sugar added), like perrier. Does drinking sparkling rather then flat water cause negative side effects?

Is it good/common practice to do intermittent ketosis? Ie for example, 3 weeks with low carb, one week normal and so forth?

Thanks again a lot for your advice, support.


#2

Correct, 20g is the typically start point for many, but many just stay there. If you’re very active you can most likely get away with more.

True, but unless you’re managing a medical condition with keto don’t waste your money on the Mojo and strips, it accomplishes nothing other than making you crazy about what ketone reading you have. You could be spending that money on steak. Higher ketone levels don’t mean faster fat loss.

I’m not familiar with that app, it may be fine. But in lots of trial and error of all the big major ones, paid accts with all of them I’ve personally found crononmeter the best so far. Give’s me the most control, reporting and ability than any of the others. There’s a free version, but very much worth the paid one if you want to really track useful info.

This is where things get dicey and the CICO debates start, energy balance in/out is real, but we’re not as good as we think figuring out the “out” part. Regardless of tools and gadgets we use. We ultimately need to be in a deficit to loose, but simple using tracking software for the in and out isn’t perfect. For most it’s close enough to go by what it says, but it also can’t acct for screwed up metabolism, incorrect food entries, large hormonal responses etc.

Zero, it’s water.

Having some more carbs is fine, but you also can’t go from keto to eating the crap diet that made you overweight and expect to have a positive outcome. If you want to eat some more carbs one day do it, and just drop the fat that day. Allow your body to deal with it and continue on normally after. I’d be more of a fan of calorie cycling to keep the metabolism up, but of foods that you can eat without screwing up your results. You can only run a caloric deficit for so long depending on how large it is before you slow your RMR down, that’s the calorie trap.


(Bob M) #3

Initially, you should be able to use the urine strips, which aren’t expensive, if you want to keep track of ketones. Note that a lot affects these, such as hydration.

It’s hard not to change calories when going from one diet to another. I went on Atkins multiple times before finally staying on. Each time, after multiple weeks, I got to a point where I wasn’t hungry. I “simply” ate less. (I say “simply” because what causes hunger is amazingly complex, and I can’t say I understand it.)


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #4

Net or total is your choice. Dr. Eric Westman tells his patients to eat no more than 20 g total. Dr. Stephen Phinney advises his patients to eat no more than 50 g total, in the hope that their net carbs will be 20 g or less.

If you continue to eat low-carb at the calorie level you ate before, you will still find your insulin dropping and your hunger/satiety hormones reasserting themselves. After starting a ketogenic diet, I continued to eat the same amount of food for a couple of weeks, and then, in the middle of a meal, I experienced for the first time in my memory what real satiety feels like. Although my belly was nowhere near full, I was suddenly done, halfway through the food on my plate. There was nothing for it but to put the plate in the fridge for later—much later, as it turned out. The best guide to how much to eat is to eat to satisfy your hunger. Your appetite will regulate your intake to a level at which, if you have excess stored fat to shed, it will get metabolised along with any fat you eat.

There are documented cases in the literature of people eating 3000 calories a day on an ad libitum low-carb diet, who still lost as much fact as other study participants who ate less. There is also the case of the British nutrition activist, Sam Feltham, who ate a 5000-calorie ketogenic diet for 28 days. The only effect was that he gained a few pounds of muscle and lost a few pounds of fat, for a small net gain in weight, and a small net loss in waist size.

No. The only negative side effect possible is to over-hydrate and wash out some needed electrolytes. The carbonation is irrelevant.

The point of a well-formulated ketogenic diet is to lower insulin by greatly reducing the amount of carbohydrate ingested. Elevated serum glucose (carbohydrates are simply glucose molecules arranged in various ways) and elevated serum insulin are both known to have detrimental effects on the human body. Once you’ve lowered your insulin, why would you want to raise it again?


#5

I used net carbs and 40g limit, it’s individual, my approach worked when my goal was only ketosis and fat adaptation. 20g is good for most but not for all and many people experience total carbs work better for them. I am below 20g total nowadays when I do keto but it’s a side effect of carnivore(-ish) :smiley: It’s definitely way better for me but lowering my carbs were only one (though needed) change.
<20g net carbs is good as a starting point. I would have done that if that would have been realistic. I made a gamble and got lucky. But even I had to go lower for success.

I definitely won’t, I experienced it (my previous diet was low-carb but that’s not the point though that was the reason I kept eating exactly the same amount of calories. I ate more on high-carb and not just a bit, I very much overate there because carbs made me hungry. I probably would gain on keto if I ate that much but I can’t know and I can’t do that anyway).
There are other opinions and experiences. But many people on this forum need to control the amount. Many people automatically eat less on keto (others not but interesting things happen. the human body is complex and the calories don’t act in it the same as in a caloriemeter) but not everyone. Some of us have the typical hunger and satiation change later, not right in ketosis but when fat-adapted. But fat adaptation and extreme low carb together, that was the real game changer… I still don’t lose fat, it’s me but I feel better, eat a bit less, move more (yay! I can’t feel right without proper activity) and it will happen. And I would lose if I had more to lose, I didn’t even need keto for that, just low-carb.

Intermittent ketosis? Is it a term? Hmmm… It must be individual. I did on/off keto for years because I couldn’t find my sweet spot yet and I felt the same on/off keto, keto was just less comfortable. But it was a temporal, not ideal keto for me, I had to change my food choices there.
And my off times were low-carb, no heavily processed food, no added sugar…etc. I had lots of rules. No way I ever go back to my very old woe… I left it for good when I went low-carb.
So no, don’t do “normal”. What people call normal is very unhealthy for them, usually.

And I am not extremely sensitive to carbs, I could eat much sugar without serious problems (like feeling bloated or having a stomachache) if I barely had carbs for a while - but a whole week eating, like, 100g carbs, that’s almost guaranteed carb poisoning to me. I can’t have any idea about your body but a week “normal” sounds very much after your body doing its business after 3 weeks in ketosis… It must be a shock. It can adapt, our body is awesome (well it depends how damaged) but it deserves better.
I really understand the charm of carbs, there is a reason I went off keto all the time when I had my original, not good enough style - but you can learn to “need” only a little. Keto food is great if you choose well to begin with. We still may desire different things and even indulge ourselves if we are that type (it’s a bad idea for people who get triggered or get sick then) but it should be in moderation, not very often, not for long… At least for us who actually feels better on keto and it’s probably quite common. If you can’t do keto all the time or you can but it’s a huge sacrifice and you are fine on a carbier diet too… Well, do whatever feels right but I don’t think you should decide on whole carby weeks… But you should know what is best for you - or not but experiments are useful…
You might not even want a carby week after 3 keto weeks. One can change a lot and keto food is nice. I am a hedonist, getting joy out of things (like eating) is very basic to me - but I am just fine without eating every tasty things that exist near me. I want good food and I get it even on carnivore, carbs are overrated. If I really want some carbs, I eat them but excessively for a week? I didn’t “need” it even as a beginner. Well I never jumped into keto from high-carb either, that would have been hell to me. So do what you think is best but think of the possibility that you indulge yourself and you stay lowish-carb. And just because you refuse to give up some carbier item, it doesn’t mean you must go off keto, it depends. If you are fine with tiny amounts, your chances are better :wink:


(Joey) #6

I’ll beg to differ on this… I used the Mojo regularly for the better part of a year (still do occasionally) and found the data very interesting. Have not gone crazy over it (perhaps, having already been crazy?)…

All the apps have pros/cons. I had great success with CarbManager (paid version after a trial) in learning about food contents that I had no insights into previously. But after about a year, you learn what you learn and move on to just eating what you know is good for your particular situation. Don’t go crazy :wink:

Will add one suggestion: Take the need to maintain proper electrolytes very seriously. Whether your water is sparkling or not doesn’t matter (assuming there’s nothing else added from the “manufacturer”) but do make sure to get plenty of salt, and ideally magnesium/potassium. Otherwise you will feel like crap.

Best wishes!


#7

Some people stay sane, I never did. Mainly because when I was into checking ketones I believed that higher numbers were doing something “better” for me. Once I realized that they weren’t, it was just a waste.

CarbManager is good, my issue with it was that it lacked a lot of granularity vs what Cronometer can track, and didn’t give the customized reporting ability that crononmeter could. It may have changed but it also didn’t offer a lot of app integration with other tools where crononmeter links with them all. One think I REALLY liked about CM was the ability to paste in websites and have it pull the recipes, it kills me cronometer can’t do that. Also it allows macro scheduling which is huge when you have different requirements on different days.


(Joey) #8

@lfod14 Good points :+1:


#9

Being in ketosis is no guarantee of weight loss. Ketosis is driven by how many carbs you eat. Weight is driven by how much you eat. For many trying to lose weight, the advantage of ketosis is that it reduces hunger, because carbs and insulin are no longer driving a false sense of hunger.

Keto is more a lifestyle change than a short-term diet.

What you want to do is find a sustainable way of eating that gets you the results you are looking for. If a different way of eating can maintain weight loss after keto, it should be able to lose the weight in the first place, without keto. Without a sustainable way of eating, you’re pretty much signing yourself up for a lifetime of yo-yo dieting.