Another lesson learned...long stall broken

(Deb) #1

Hi, all! I haven’t posted for a long time, as life has become very busy, but have stayed keto/IF as I have been for several years, going from 210 to an “unhealthy” and brief 130 (tanked my thyroid) back up to the 135 to 145 range.

I have always felt that there was something else I’ve been missing this past year or so. So, as have many of you, I’ve ran the gamut of different foods, protocols, measurements; reading, re-reading, listening to podcasts, watching videos, scrutinized my diet for hidden carbs, too little carbs, too much protein, not enough fat, too much fat…! I swear, I was pretty close to just giving up and driving to the ice cream shop and burying my head in a bucket of triple chocolate chunk!

But a cooler head prevailed, and I started REALLY being honest with myself about what I was eating.
It turns out that the only thing causing the problem was Stevia!
I have been drinking coffee with Stevia and cream for about 2 years or so. AND using it in EVERY recipe calling for a sweetener, which in my case was EVERY NIGHT! I TRULY believe(and you never could have got me to admit this before!) that it caused SEVERE cravings. I swear I thought constantly about how much cream cheese and cocoa concoctions I could come up with, and how many jars of peanut butter/ almond butter I devoured, silently convincing myself that it was all “keto-friendly” and I did not have and eating disorder!

I completely stopped ALL sweeteners 3 days ago. What an amazing change! I not only started dropping fat again, but no more insane cravings. I drank coffee with Stevia from 4 am until around e pm EVERY DAY! And sometimes one after dinner! And then in my dessert! It may as well just be sugar!

I hope this helps somebody else. I’m sad that it took me this long to figure it out but you see such good things said about Stevia (Tom Delauer raves about it). So much conflicting info!

(Jennifer Kleiman) #2

Well done! Last October I went on a 30-day no-sweetener moratorium, no sugar nothing sweet. I did have herbal teas with things like cinnamon or vanilla that have a sweet taste of sorts. Anyway it really broke my lifelong sweet tooth and gave me a lot more base level of self-control.

I don’t think there’s sound scientific evidence that sweeteners cause glucose reactions or insulin spikes (except for certain sweeteners). I do think that some people’s brains are triggered by sweet taste to stir up cravings. Its an individual thing and some people are fine with it, but other folks need to be on guard and might be well-served by cutting them out until the trigger-reward loop is broken.

I do think that in the long run, enjoying sweet treats in a mostly-harmless way, occasionally, is possible. I think it’s actually essential for long-term keto. Otherwise you’ll feel too deprived and eventually break.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

Some people on these forums have reported that their insulin seems to spike from one or another of the artificial sweeteners. (Apparently it is possible to infer this from how one’s glucose level behaves.) But the thing is that each one of these people reports having the problem with a different sweetener, and they often report that they have a problem with only one of them and not others. From this, I would say it’s perfectly reasonable that one person could rave about stevia, while another person could have trouble with it. I also infer from this that we really don’t completely understand how artificial sweeteners work in the body.

One other thing to bear in mind: from my last purchase of artificial sweetener, I learned how important it is to read the labels very carefully. For example, there are several varieties of stevia available in my area, from stevia mixed with sucrose, to stevia mixed with maltodextrin, to stevia mixed with monkfruit (erythritol), to plain stevia. And you need to read the back of the package to get the full story; the come-ons on the front can be misleading. And you have to look at the list of ingredients, not just the nutrition panel.

(Katie the Quiche Scoffing Stick Ninja ) #4

I am starting to think I am one of these people!

#5

Thanks @skinnyjeans13 for sharing ACTIONABLE advice (beyond “be patient and trust the process”) with those of us who are trying to break long-term stalls.

About 3 or 4 weeks ago, I gave up artificial sweeteners in coffee based on the theory that they raise insulin (I believe cravings are evidence for this) and since I drink coffee throughout the day, I was getting a snacking/grazing effect. I switched to OMAD and want to keep my insulin low 23 hours per day. My only indulgence is Keto ice cream with erythritol, but since I have it in my 1 hour feeding window, its insulin spike coincides with my dinner.

And, now down 10 pounds after a 6 month stall.

(Ashley) #6

You could well be. I do okay with erythritol, I do bad with most others. I can have a low carb monster energy with erythritol and be fine. Daily even, try something with anything else I gain.

(Deb) #7

I wondered after I wrote the post if there are different versions of Stevia. Of course, you’d think the people who are standing at the forefront, posting videos saying " Stevia will lower your blood sugar and not spike your insulin" would know this and qualify it by telling people that there MAY be different reactions in different people, it COULD cause insulin spikes, and yes, to read the labels.

It’s funny (or sad/frustrating/annoying) that the longer you are in this, the more conflicting information you find.

(Candy Lind) #8

I (thankfully) learned about different “qualities” of stevia early on, and use only the high-purity steviacides in powder form, which are super-concentrated. I use about 1/16 tsp per 12 oz of BPC with cocoa powder, and no insulin reaction. I think it’s all back to testing anything you want to use. Your “N=1” or “snowflake profile,” I suppose! :wink:

I believe my husband is having insulin reactions to sucralose. I’m trying to get him to back off, but it’s all or nothing with him, and I think he needs BPC at this point to get enough fat daily. I know if I do more than just a little sweet stuff, the sugar monster rears his ugly head and I simply “eat it all.” So, I avoid all but small amounts (learned that lesson my first keto Christmas, last year).

I guess I need to get off my butt and make him some fat bombs (many of which will still need sweetener - aarrgghh!).

(Deb) #9

@CandyLindTX what brand name is that stevia that you use? The more I think about it, I agree it is the quality/type.

#10

@CandyLindTX - can you share how you are determining that you get no insulin response?

I’m still sorting out how to measure insulin, whether directly or indirectly.

(Candy Lind) #11

The first one I got was from “Mommy Knows Best” on Amazon. The small containers last so long, I haven’t really needed to buy more, but when I found one from NOW brands at my grocery store, I bought it just to support their stocking it. Just look for 90%+ pure steviacides, I think they call it. No other ingredients on the label. NOW makes a bulked-up stevia powder containing inulin (an oligosaccharide/fiber additive)- if you don’t know how inulin affects you, don’t buy it. Don’t freak at the price for 500 grams of pure powder - it’ll last you forever. But buy a few grams at first just to see how you do with it.

Adding links to a couple of products on Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/Pure-Stevia-Powder-Extract-Sweetener/dp/B01924GTC2/ref=sr_1_2_s_it?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1529507000&sr=1-2&keywords=mommy%2Bknows%2Bbest&th=1
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B005F9XFN0?aaxitk=-TUyvxBJOLiNj7H3uu.TDw&pd_rd_i=B005F9XFN0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3930100107420870094&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=pure%2Bstevia%2Bpowder&hsa_cr_id=1024405300201&th=1

(Candy Lind) #12

The method I’ve seen more than one place is using a BG meter. Probably best when fasted. Take your BG, then ingest a serving of the sweetener you want to test (mix with water and prepare to cringe! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:). Then test your BG a few times - at 30, 60, and 120 minutes for example. If your BG drops any significant amount, you generated insulin after ingesting that sweetener & should use it with caution (only when eating, never during a fast) or not at all.

#13

@CandyLindTX - Ah, OK, that makes sense. Detect insulin indirectly through the change in BG.

I’m thinking my approach is conservative – I’ll just assume all artificial sweeteners raise insulin, avoid them during my fasting periods, and have them as an indulgence when I feed. “Ya wanna spike there, insulin? OK, go crazy 'cause it’s gonna be 23 hours until we eat again.”

(Deb) #14

Ok, I’m really confused now! If you eat something and your blood glucose DROPS , that means that is a BAD thing?? I was working on the opposite, that a too-high increase in BG after eating whatever was a sign that that item was spiking bg. Ketones go up when bg go down. Right?

#15

Hey @skinnyjeans13 – I think we’re talking about a special case, where we’ve come up with a method to indirectly measure the insulin spike associated with an artificial sweetener consumed in isolation. But, I don’t think this can’t be extended to the general case of eating a combination of foods.

I really should defer to @CandyLindTX, who originally described the test method.

(Auden) #16

I think what you’re describing in your original post is that stevia was stalling your weight loss.

It might have done that because for you, your insulin is raised when you have stevia. If you can lower insulin, you can break a stall (I don’t 100% understand why that is honestly. Hopefully someone can explain it.)

I think when they’re talking about blood glucose dropping after ingesting stevia, that would be a bad thing in this one case because that means your body is producing insulin in response to the stevia (when actually there isn’t glucose coming in). So you may be able to measure this indirectly by sort of performing an experiment on yourself. Having too much insulin would make blood sugar go low, I think.

I’m wondering what happens to glucose the next morning. Would it be high as the body tries to compensate for the extra insulin? Just a thought exercise.

Congrats on breaking your stall! I really needed the extra push to get rid of artificial sweeteners myself.

(Alec) #17

I think the theory here is that the sweetener wouldn’t raise your BG levels, as there are no carbs or protein in it. However, it could raise your insulin, and if it did, this would drive your BG level down. Hence if you see a drop in BG level after ingesting the sweetener, then you are driving insulin up by eating that sweetener, which means it is bad and we shouldn’t be eating it.

Does that make sense?
Cheers
Alec

#18

Thanks! I needed to read this!

(Candy Lind) #19

Exactly! If your BG goes down, it means the sweetener caused an insulin release - exactly what you should be doing your best to limit.

#20

SAME HERE! I have read everything about Stevia (never did tolerate ANY of the other non-nutritive sweeteners) and really, really wanted it to be ok to have. I even got the organic dried leaves and made my own syrup. Alas, all it did was keep me a prisoner to cravings and blood sugar swings. It was like dancing with the devil, I am not exaggerating. Once I gave it up, I felt truly free. My “sweet tooth” is completely satisfied with a half ounce of Montezuma’s Black 100% dark chocolate Trader Joe’s (no added sweeteners of any kind) and some black berries and coconut cream on occasion. There is no craving dictating my desire or impulses. I NEVER would have thought this possible, but it has worked for me. The best part is the relief from the thoughts in my head, a battle between what I wanted for my-self and my goals, and what my taste buds wanted. That struggle is OVER!