An honest, but suave, convo with medical professionals

(Lefteris) #1

I’ve been a member for sometime now and I was looking for a pertinent occasion to make a first post and greet you all.

Some background: I’m a chemistry graduate and MSc in Organic Analytical Chemistry, and have been on keto for the best part of the last 5 years. I’m actually now about 80% carnivore, the rest being low carb dairy, some whey protein and low carb vegetables.

In the last year’s I’ve lost relatively young people, and seen even more cancers (sarcomas, lymphatic issues, thyroid) and CV problems, and a general health deterioration of others even though they eat diversified “healthy” mostly Mediterranean diets as is mainstream in my Mediterranean country.

For context, Mediterranean diet in Greece means: generally a lot of olive oil, however now due to rising prices, it is severely limited, red meat once or twice per week, normally paired with gigantic amounts of pasta or potatoes, once per week fish, twice legumes normally with rice or potatoes, and the rest maybe some chicken (again with pasta or potatoes) or … pasta with pasta!

Sweets consumption is very regular, if not daily, at least 3-4 times per week.

Of course breakfast - snacks it’s the same as you get around the world: cereal, skimmed milk, juice, “healthy bars” etc.

I’m gently pushing for having a conversation with our medical professionals, to explain some considerations and to try to push lightly toward suggesting an LCHF approach. As always, the discussion should be gentle and suave, trying to make an irrefutable point. Some of the main issues I’m thinking on discussing are blood panels, especially LDL-c number consideration, glucose in blood and reading all these in context, what eating “healthy means”, what exercise does, what are the benefits to be gained with a different nutritional approach.

So, the concrete questions:

  • has anyone had this kind of conversation and how did it go?
  • anyone has a good curated set of references on the matter (papers etc), that could be used as substantial proof?

In case such a post exists and I have not seen it, please point me to it’s direction.

Thanks a lot for your help, and keep on!

(Brian) #2

It’s hard to have deep meaningful conversations with a doctor who spends 30 seconds reading your chart, 1.5 minutes with you in a room, and then off to see other patients. You’ll see a nurse for more time than that.

Granted, some doctors spend a little more time than that but they are often pushed to get in, get out, and prescribe the drug of the day according to the chart.

(KM) #3

Dr. Ken Berry’s “Lies My Doctor Told Me” is a pretty gentle and compassionate approach to changing a doctor’s mind, and he has a lot of technical reference material to back it up. Of course as Brian points out, success may be limited by a particular doctor’s training, fear, laziness, or burnout from corporate/capitalist constraints they must operate under. I believe it was Dr Berry who said, “I give my patients a statin prescription, and on the way out the door I tell them it would be just fine if they lost it.”

I’d say the overall attitude about doctors on this forum is frustration. For most of us it’s a one in 1000 shot that we will find a doctor on our page, or have the personal magnetism to change the mind of a doctor who isn’t. In the US, I would define the purpose of physicians as finding diseases to maintain and control with prescriptions. The idea of preventing disease in the first place, particularly through an intervention that profits no one but the patients, is apparently anathema. My husband’s “nice” young doctor refused to engage me at all, beyond the polite eye roll, and then, “but this treatment is the best we have, so what would we do with information like ApoB”, when referring to “improving health” - with same old same old lipid panels and statin prescriptions and low fat eating advice. Around the mulberry bush we go.

Still I commend you, and best of luck! :v:

(Lefteris) #4

Thanks a lot for your inputs. I got dr. Berry’s book. It’s a good read so far and gives some reference that I wasn’t aware of.

I’ll do my homework, and try to be “compassionate” and convincing. :laughing:

(B Creighton) #5

“generally a lot of olive oil, however now due to rising prices, it is severely limited” - great
“red meat once or twice per week” - check
“normally paired with gigantic amounts of pasta or potatoes” - I’m sure this is where your concern is starting. I used to eat a lot more potato than I do now. I’ve almost eliminated it except in the occassional pot roast. This is not only because it is high carb, but also because it is somewhat high in oxalates. My health numbers are much better now.
“once per week fish” - check
“twice legumes normally with rice or potatoes” - these days rice has arsenic concerns, which you may try to stress. I eat rice very occassionally. I’m not sure about in Europe, but these days most cheap lentils are sprayed with glyphosate about 2 weeks before the desired harvest date. As a consequence these and other legumes, I only eat organic now. Not sure if Europe tries to keep out imported and sprayed legumes or not. I also soak mine for about a day before cooking. I do eat legumes once or twice a month in my low carb phase of the year. They don’t seem to hurt the Acciorilis of Italy…
“and the rest maybe some chicken (again with pasta or potatoes)” - Maybe not in Europe, but in America pasta unfortunately is often made from glyphosate laden wheat for the same reason legumes are.
“or … pasta with pasta!” - see above for my feelings. I just rarely eat pasta now, and if I do, it will be organic.
“Sweets” - in America are typically laden with artificial/“natural” but synthesized flavorings, colorings, preservatives, emulsifiers, and of course sugar/high-fructose corn syrup. I discovered these were shooting up my blood pressure by 20 points or more overnight, so stopped this last of my bad eating habits. Now, I typically eat whole fruits for dessert - if any.
How to convince others? Maybe by watching as many Youtube videos as me…LOL. Or get them to try a continuous blood glucose monitor so they can see how high their blood sugar is going. That may have the most convincing power.

(Joey) #6

A (5-year belated) welcome to keto!

With what you know, you could now be giving the workshops for medical professionals. But the challenge still comes down to incentives.

Physicians face a web of obstacles to change… financial incentives, legal repercussions, time management constraints… they all converge to make it extremely difficult to change the mind, especially of someone who devoted years and effort to get the training they now believe in.

The best chance to change medical minds might come back to the Hippocratic Oath. Presumably someone in this field truly wants to improve the quality of a patient’s life. And so perhaps focusing on the outcomes - as proven in the field - is your best best bet to influence.

Practitioners are “clinicians” in the sense that they deal with the real world consequences. The more you can share about real world documented clinical results, the more you might be likely to open minds to new ways of approaching the diseases that they see every day.

Good luck! :vulcan_salute: