Am I keto or am i low carb?

(Ludmila Block) #26

Thanks for trying to help. My original question was really about whether I’m technically doing a ketogenic diet or just lchf (and is there a difference). The reason for my not losing weight is really not a mystery to me - I don’t create enough of a calorie deficit. Yes, CICO-that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :slight_smile:

(TJ Borden) #27

If it’s as simple as CICO, then why are you interested in LCHF/ketosis? I’m asking seriously, not to be an ass hole.

If it’s as simple as CICO, then fat would be the last thing you’d want to eat because there are so many more calories per gram than carbohydrates or protein.

It might be beneficial to listen to the podcast, start from the beginning. There are MANY health benefits to a ketogenic way of eating. When it comes to weight loss, it happens through being fat adapted, which can be attained through a keto WOE.

Being fat adapted means your system has learned (or remembered - since it’s hard wired into our DNA) to utilize fat for fuel. Once you reach that state, your body will look for fat to use. That is a combination of the fat you eat, and the fat that is stored.

What many find, myself included, is once you reach that state, your appetite decreases significantly. You end up eating less calories because your system is supplementing with calories from stored fat. That’s when fasting becomes easy, and even naturally.

Without being fat adapted, your system is still looking to carbohydrates for energy, and when you force caloric restriction (and it is forced since you said yourself that you stop eating even thought you’re hungry), your metabolism will end up slowing to match what you are taking in because it’s not recognizing your stored fat as available energy.

It’s the biggest loser effect…and it doesn’t work in the long run.

#28

From 2-3/day, I find them easy to take with meals - otherwise you need plenty of beverage to wash them down (it’s not fun to get a capsule dissolve in the throat or esophagus with a surge of heat - except if one’s congested!). Up to 3 grams (6 capsules) per day has been confirmed safe - around 4 grams is where it causes problems in excess. There are some other good posts here in this forum about Ginger as a superfood :wink:

#29

You’re welcome!

It’s a book, lots of used copies on Amazon. I also recommend Body By Science, by LCHF writer Doug McGuff MD. :muscle:t3: Slow, intense weightlifting only needs to be done once or twice a week for 30 minutes- and contains both aerobic and anaerobic benefits. It’s very freeing to spend such a little amount of time doing something so beneficial. Fascinatingly, there is even evidence to say that longer recovery times between workouts (7-14 days) on occasion can actually enhance muscle development - because we are not machines, we are a universe of processes…

Re: Ginger I buy capsules from a company known for its purity - Nature’s Way - on Amazon as well as at some drugstores and health food stores. There are other pricier brands too - but I buy a big bottle for $8! You must take it by washing it down with plenty of water, or during a meal with a few sips of something, in order to make sure it doesn’t dissolve in the throat or esphagus which is burny and no fun.

I don’t measure progress in lbs - I’ve intentionally unlearned the ‘ten pounds’ concept :wink: My goal is to lose flab and see some muscles - and keto + Ginger and/or strength training is VERY reassuring for that.

Google the studies on Ginger and cortisol, ginger and belly fat, ginger and insulin - tons of confirmation of what ancient Asia and north Africa knew, that ginger is a treasure.

Yes - I feel mentally better with 50g net. 20g was only ever meant for induction for non IR folks - and even IR folks might find Ginger allows them to increase net carbs to 50g or more, since it reduces insulin and cortisol…
What’s funny about newer midlife belly fat is that even when it’s coming off, 1/4-1/2 inch per month or whatever, it’s a slow process. So, I’m giving it a year, LOL. And then, I’ll still continue taking Ginger just once a day for prevention, etc.

(Diane) #30

Thanks @SlowBurnMary. I’ve ordered my ginger and I’m excited to see if it helps me too!

:smiley:

(Tammy Kidd) #31
(Karl) #32

People who eat this way are typically more satiated with the foods they DO eat - maybe because fat has so much more energy per gram.

That in turn means you probably eat fewer calories overall.

People seem to think that calories “don’t matter at all” with keto, which some interpret as “I can chow down on 6,000 kcal/day of bacon and still lose weight.”

Does anyone truly believe that’s sustainable? I don’t.

Edit: But I will say, if there’s a heaven, I hope 6,000 kcal/day of bacon without weight gain is one of the perks!

(Julie) #33

Hi Ludmilla, Really enjoyed reading your posts.

I just wanted to chime in with my 2cents :). For me…I HAVE to combine keto with some kind of fasting…either AD, EF, or IF to lose any weight. It always works though and I keep the weight off by doing keto. If I keep my calories about the same…even if I go pretty low cal, my body just adapts and I don’t lose any weight. Megan Ramos says keep changing things up while trying to lose lbs and I really believe that works best for me. Since you have done ADF in the past with HUGE success…maybe keep doing that?
Best of luck!

(TJ Borden) #34

That’s why I was posing the question to @Ludmila_Block.

I’m not asking for myself, but read the posts. She’s defending CICO, NOT eating to satiety, and only taking in 1500 calories a day.

Add to that, she’s considering restricting calories even more and adding exercise because her weight hasn’t been been dropping.

Maybe 1500 calories is all she needs, but if she’s still hungry, then there’s something that needs adjusting.

(Karl) #35

Could be… Or they could be like me. My “full” signal is delayed by half an hour when I eat. If I eat fat to satiety, I gain weight. But if I count a reasonable amount of calories in a day with the proper macro ratio for keto, stop eating and wait a half hour, my “full” signal finally gets tripped and my weight doesn’t go up or down.

What needs adjusting in that scenario?

(TJ Borden) #36

That depends on your goals. If that works for you, great. I’m all for people doing what works for them, but by her own claim, it’s NOT working for her. Maybe it’s matter of learning the signals. You said you have a delay in feeing full. So do I, but satiety is the point in which you are no longer hungry, not necessarily to when you’re full. There was great podcast episode about it recently, might worth a listen.

50 grams a day of carbohydrates may be too high to allow fat adaptation and allow the signals to work properly.

My point is that an approach defending CICO is missing the point of HOW keto works through fat adaptation.

We all know that people can loose a significant amount of weight through CICO, but most of us have also learned the hard way that it’s not a healthy way to lose weight and will derange your metabolism even more than it already is.

(Karl) #37

Yeah, I listened to it, and thought throughout that it simply doesn’t work for me that way. If I eat to the point where i’m not hungry anymore, i’m overeating and gaining weight. I won’t believe i’m alone in this. That’s why I have to stop and wait half an hour. I am absolutely fat-adapted without question - but I will still gain weight if I chant the mantra, “eat fat to satiety”.

You can be fat adapted and still overeat fat if you have a broken “I’m full” signal - which I suspect is what’s going on with some people who follow keto principles yet still gain weight. So I guess the point I am trying to make is: If you KNOW that “I’m full” signal is messed up in you somehow, what else can one do to not overeat (and consequently gain weight) besides count calories to a level where you know you won’t gain weight?

CICO isn’t completely great. But it’s not completely wrong or bad, either.

(Ludmila Block) #38

if it’s as simple as CICO why am i interested in ketosis? because weight loss is not the only value of this WOE. ketogenic/low carb diet may prevent neuro-degenerative diseases like Alzheimer (which runs in my family),
and cancer. That’s reason enough. It’s also obviously a weight loss tool - it does help with cravings control - if i wasn’t in ketosis i’d be eating two or three times the amount of calories. I do believe i’m keto adapted. because fasting is easy for me,
and i don’t crave carbs. But I do have to actively monitor my food intake and limit what i eat because i just don’t get those “full” signals, it’s just the way i’m wired - i can eat until i’m about to pop, and then continue eating it’s just my screwed up relationship
with food from years of binge eating, eating for comfort, eating for pleasure, eating from boredom, eating from stress etc… So i have to use “manual break”. that’s why i must track calories. Don’t worry, with 1500 calorie as my goal (sometimes i go over,
sometimes i’m under and i don’t track on saturday - which could be the reason i’m not losing) i’m not hungry (but i could eat more). I think that’s a reasonable amount of calories for my weight/age/activity level. With weight loss being my secondary priority
(preventing disease is #1) i’m not particularly concerned with the fact that i’m not losing. I know how to solve that problem, just adding a 30 min walk/day and a few fast days/week will do it.

(TJ Borden) #39

You started the topic, so you had questions about your method. It seems like you aren’t looking for advice, but just affirmation of what you’ve been doing.

Finding people on this forum that will support CICO and/or a daily intake of 50g of carbohydrates, specifically when you say you aren’t achieving your goals, will probably be difficult.

I’m not here to argue with you. What I can do is to share my personal experience. Because of my size, my BMR was over 3500 calories a day and pre-keto I intermittent fasted (I actually discovered it before keto) and limited my calories to 2500 a day. By CICO standards the weight should have been melting off with a 1000 calorie daily deficit. I was nearly always hungry, never felt full, and I was ALWAYS tired. There was a time I slept for 12 hours a night and I would still be drowsy at work. Two years of that, and I packed on just over 100 additional pounds and became pre-diabetic.

In hindsight it all makes sense. My metabolism slowed to match what I was taking in. Because I wasn’t fat adapted, my system didn’t recognize the hundreds of pounds of stored fat as usable energy.

If you’re open to experimenting, I’d encourage you to go for a couple weeks of less than 20g (or as close to zero as you can for the sake of the experiment) of carbohydrates and see what happens. Then fill up on fat. During that time, don’t worry about tracking calories. You might find that increasing fat might help fix your satiety signal.

Whatever you do, best of luck to you.

(Ludmila Block) #40

That’s just the proof that everyone is different. Because for me the calorie reduction by the means of alternate day “fasting”(500 calories one day and 2000-2500 the next) worked perfectly. I lost exactly the amount of weight that I expected to lose based on cico calculations. I did this for over a year and lost 70 lbs. i also felt great after initial couple of weeks adjustment period.

20 net carbs- I did give it a good try - doesn’t work for me at all. I’m just not happy on this regimen. My body needs more carbs. Also I eat mostly plant based so getting such high % of fat is hard.

#41

Woo hoooo! I’m sure you’ll be experiencing some of Ginger’s superpowers within hours or days of incorporating into your routine. And though the fat recomposition below the belly button is definitely slow, it’s steady. Remember to wash the capsules down with plenty of water, or during a meal with a few sips of something, so it doesn’t dissolve in the throat or esophagus - which is pretty burny and not fun (except if one has a chest cold, lol).

…Cortisol levels can vary depending on stress levels and stress management routines - I have found that just two capsules of day of Ginger brought significant help for my non-obese body mass - others might do better with double that, etc.

(Melis Jansen ) #42

Thanks for the information about Ginger. I’ve been reading about it and just ordered those capsules. I love to use a lot of ginger in my cooking and to make tea with. I never thought about it possibly having health benefits.

(Marie Dantoni) #43

I use it a lot and I knew it was good for me, but I didn’t realise how much !

(Diane) #44

@SlowBurnMary

Thanks for your help. When I was a teenager, my mom tried some alternative therapies for treating my colds, cayenne pepper capsules. I learned about drinking a lot of water with those to make sure they didn’t dissolve in my throat!

Also, do you take ginger with lots of water when you’re fasting? Or do you stick to taking them with meals?

(Brian) #45

Ludmila, have you tried intermittent fasting with zero calories of input on fasting days?

You mention every other day of 500 calories of input as something you’ve done before. I’m not sure that’s fasting the same way as zero input would be. Calorie restriction and fasting are two different things, quite different if you ask Dr. Fung.

I also wondered about your plant based diet. Are you eating things that are suggested to mess with hormones? Soy is one of those things. (You may not agree with the concept that some foods like that make a difference, we’re all entitled to our opinions. And while I like the thought of a plant based diet, I’ve not been able to reconcile plant based and keto without soy and still get what seems like good nutrition. FWIW, my wife has a nasty allergic reaction to many soy products. It just doesn’t work here.)

Just something that came to mind…