Am I fooling myself

#1

I have done keto several times over the last 8 years.
My repeat failing was caused by gallstones. I didn’t realize it at the time though. Shifting into ketosis would cause me horrible pain, and I thought it was my kidneys. (I am prone to kidney stones) Also, I have a dairy and egg sensitivity. My cholesterol went up for the first time ever while on keto, and this was not due to eating processed keto foods. I always ate real, home cooked meals. Lastly, I found myself sensitive to exogenous ketones which I would use at the beginning of starting keto.

Despite all this, I did lose weight and felt great when these above symptoms were not affecting me.

I am back now, considering going keto again, now without a gallbladder. I do have ox bile salts to assist me if needed. However, I worry about getting this wrong again. Can anyone tell me what went wrong? I assumed that my body just rejected keto and I would never try it again but this was when I had the problematic gallbladder.

My biggest problem was the dairy and egg issue. What are some healthy fats that I can use instead? (I hate avocado) I can tolerate cheese once in a while and my body seems to accept ultra filtered lactose free milk in my coffee. But anything more I would get rashes. (I am able to tolerate Greek yogurt)

Does anyone have links to share for keto recipes without dairy? I did once try just going carnivore and hated it. I like variety. I feel as if trying again could be a moot point. Am I crazy to even consider it with all my sensitivities?

(Edith) #2

I don’t eat dairy but I can eat eggs. It is actually quite easy to follow keto and eat dairy-free, especially if you eat natural, whole foods.

  • Prepare a meal with a fatty meat and a side of veggies, you have a dairy-free meal right there.

  • You don’t have to eat breakfast foods for breakfast. While I can eat eggs, I don’t like how many I have to eat to get the amount of protein per meal I would like, so I tend to have dinner leftovers for breakfast.

  • If a main course recipe calls for butter or milk, I will use some kind of animal fat (duck fat has a fairly mild flavor) or coconut oil and coconut milk or another type of nut milk as the milk replacement. There are also a couple of good dairy-free butters out there.

  • There are dairy-free Greek style yogurts that are quite tasty. These are usually made with coconut milk.

  • Nutpods is a good dairy-free, almost no carb creamer.

  • There are dairy-free keto cookbooks by Maria Emmerich, Kyndra Holley, and others. Just do a search on Amazon for “dairy free keto cookbook” and a number of them show up.

  • Any recipe that is considered Paleo is also dairy-free.

As to what went wrong last time. My conjecture is that the gallstones were already there and suddenly increasing your fat intake put your gallbladder into overdrive and exacerbated the problem.

Also, you don’t need to take exogenous ketones when following this diet. Keeping your carbs below 20g per day is pretty much a guarantee that you will be in ketosis. Exogenous ketones are more for people who want the benefit of ketones without doing the dietary work, or people who need help getting to therapeutic level of ketones.

(Bob M) #3

This may be transitory, if you’re not thin. I can make my LDL go down by eating tons of saturated fat and higher calorie. But my LDL went up initially, then down, and is now back up (while my diet hasn’t changed much).

(Edith) #4

And I’ll add that we usually recommend people wait about 6 months before getting their metabolic panels done, because it takes about that long for things to settle down.

(Ohio ) #5

Exogenous ketones are beyond my understanding. Thanks for clearly that up a little.

(Edith) #6

I’ve also read they can be useful for elderly people with cognitive decline, especially if you can’t get them to change their diet, which probably accounts for almost all people with cognitive decline.

(B Creighton) #7

What went wrong is that you were low fat too long, thus not sufficiently stimulating the gall bladder to squeeze out all its contents, and gall stones formed. Once this happens a higher fat diet will stimulate the gall bladder more to squeeze, with the stones then being felt as they are getting squeezed “out.” There’s surgery or elimination. My wife seemed successfully get rid of most of hers by doing an olive oil “cleanse.” She rarely, if ever, has gall bladder pain anymore - and of course does not do low fat “weight watcher” type diets anymore.
Since you can have yogurt and some cheeses, it seems your main problem is lactose intolerance. So, stick to fermented dairy - I do. It is an excellent source of beneficial dairy fats and vitamins.
Keto recipes without dairy are plentiful. I do use grass fed butter on my cruciferous veggies with Herbamare, and tolerate that fine.
Grilled salmon topped with lemon juice, sea salt, capers and pepper.
Roasted lamb in a base of olive oil, organic mustard, rosemary, thyme, sea salt, pepper,.
Garlic butter shrimp.
Herbed chicken thighs.
etc.

(Bean) #8

I haven’t had a gallbladder for 18 years, can’t eat eggs, dairy, coconut, nuts, pork. My fats are tallow, avocado oil, palm kernel MCT, and chicken fat. Occasionally soy-free veganaise. These are introductions- before that is was tallow and chicken fat only (carnivore).I would not have been able to do carnivore before my gall bladder was removed, so keto may work better for you this time.

I’ve reintroduced some low histamine veggies, but I’m more hungry, so I may back off. I’ve never given up coffee. I added green tea recently.

I freeze tallow into tablespoon portions so it’s easy to add to things. I’ve flavored them occasionally with extracts.

Definitely make sure you get enough water and electrolytes. Keto flu sucks.

ETA- the first year-18 months my cholesterol numbers were in the 400s. Then I dropped back to my pre-keto levels, which is elevated but less alarming. I seem to check the boxes for a LMHR.

(Bob M) #9

I have started drinking green tea too, because Dr. Fung (the fasting doctor) has been obsessive about how great it is lately (on Substack). Can’t say I see much of a difference, but some of what he talks about (cardiac benefits), I can’t “see”.

If you’re an LMHR, the best thing to do is get a scan, and the cheapest one of those is a CAC (coronary artery calcification) scan. That is, if you don’t know about this.

(Bean) #10

If anyone ever offers me one, I will. Since my blood pressure, ratio and BMI are low, none of my doctors seem to care.

(Bean) #11

Also- green tea. I mostly added it because I like it, it doesn’t bother me, and it has manganese, which I was lacking and helps with bone health. Interesting about Dr. Fung.

(Jane) #12

I’ve been keto for over 8 years and had to have emergency gallbladder removal surgery 2 years ago. The pain was intense and agonizing!

I have had no isses eating fat afterwards as I was warned. I don’t eat a super high fat diet - just cook with butter and olive oil and don’t avoid it. But I did the Weight Watchers low fat diet off and on for years before keto. Lordy - I wish I could turn back the clock and have done keto instead! But I found it before I became diabetic, so thankful for that. My Dad went low carb about 5 years ago and reversed his diabetes. He made it to 92 without any cancer or illnesses - body just wore out.

Too late for my Mom - she would have done keto with me and might have extended her life but I lost her over 20 years ago.

(Central Florida Bob ) #13

If I may ask - I haven’t had a gallbladder for 10 years and I’ve never noticed any effect like that. I don’t restrict fats I eat, and while I don’t eat avocado oil or palm kernel MCT, it’s not for any effects I’ve noticed. Never had the palm kernel stuff and just don’t like the taste of avocado oil. I make my own mayonnaise and use light olive oil, not extra virgin - also a taste preference.

How does the intolerance for those foods present?

(Bean) #14

The two are not connected. I worded it poorly. ETA, all but dairy are arthritis triggers. Dairy just inflames me everywhere.

(Central Florida Bob ) #15

Ah… Thanks for the explanation.