Am I fat adapted after 2.5 weeks?

(mark whittaker) #1

tomorrow will be end of week 3 in keto. Had flu for first 5 days or so. then figured out bulion.

I am a road cyclist and at first I noticed extreme loss of performance. On wednesday (2.5 weeks in) I did an 18 hour fast and then went for a 20 mile ride with 1000 ft of climbing in a fasted state. I must say I felt sooo good during that ride and I felt strong too. by the end I felt like I could easily keep going. On a side note, I did notice that if I wanted to sprint up a hill (go anaerobic) I bonked, but only for a moment until my HR dropped back down below threshold. But does the fact that I felt so strong on the ride after being keto for 2.5 weeks and end of 18hr fast mean that I am already fat adapted?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Could be! At the least, you’re well on the way.

(Rob) #3

As many will tell you, though we all go on about becoming fat adapted in 6-8 weeks or whatever, it is more of a gradient than a cliff. There comes a point when you feel the initial benefits of ketosis, another point where you become aware of next level benefits but you body is constantly improving its manufacture and utilization of ketones.

2.5 weeks is fast to be sufficiently adapted to do what you did (some take many months) but your loss of explosive or anaerobic power shows there is further up the slope to climb.

For various reasons I haven’t been out on any of my bikes for the 6 months of my keto journey partly because early on, a couple of stationary bike sessions were so uninspiring, but I’m seriously thinking of getting back in the saddle this weekend if only to see how it feels. I’m hopeful… :grinning::biking_man:

(Chris W) #4

If you are already pretty fit it is very likely you were already burning some fat via keto while cycling long distance unless you loaded heavily with carbs a lot.
You could also have a strong gluconeogenisis response as well.

You might be one of the lucky ones, I wish I could gone that quick, but then again it was the middle of winter here so no bike riding outside for me.
For me it was not a feeling of strong as much as I can just keep going without a seeming end to the energy, my anaerobic is still some what off but again I have not been able to ride a real bike yet. The first few weeks for me I could only ride 10 minutes on a medium low setting, now I am on the highest and I can go for ever if I use LISS heart rate.

(Ken) #5

Those without significant derangement adapt out of a lipogenic resistance state the fastest. You’ve adapted out of lipogenesis rather than adapted into lipolysis. One of the many misnomers used in the keto community. (Keto is also a misnomer as its actually lipolysis, the burning of fat for energy)

Training athletes who are already fit can make the adaptation in two to four weeks.

(Solomom A) #6

It’s a process, Phinney and Volek have reported that some endurance athletes continue to see performance boost even well into six months.

(ianrobo) #7

interesting comment here … If you bonked it does not happen only for a moment but finishes you for the ride, it is horrible and you never recover whether a pro or us ! I suspect you never bonked but simply ran out of a bit of energy at the top end of power and this is common during the adaption phase.

My real test is how long can you ride fasted ? I did the Tour of Flanders two weeks today and did it fasted - 200km and 7.5 hours … thats the true test of people like you asking the question …

For example a carb cyclist can easily ride 40 miles fasted but as they are not fat adapted those 2000 cals in the glycogen stores will be worn away and deplete …

then Bonk !

The whole idea of fat adaption is to use fat as your primary energy source as high up the HR and power zones as possible … The idea is if you do zones is that at either tempo HR or power for 90% of your energy to come from fat and that you could go like that for hours at a time and only muscle fatigue being a delimiter.

(Rob) #8

Anyone who does the Ronde van Vlanderen gets an automatic like… fasted, there’s not enough likes in Discourse. Did you ask of any of your fellow riders were doing something similar?

(ianrobo) #9

Cheers ! Actually it was by accident I did it fasted ! In the hotel they did breakfast at 5am but it was just cereals and bread and normally before a big event I would have eggs and cheese !

However I knew it would not be a problem and so it proved !!

(mark whittaker) #10

Ok so I can say for certain that I am not yet fat afdapted. I got cocky and went out with my cycling buddies to do a 40 mile ride with 3000 ft of climbing and 1,300 feet of that is a “mountain” in the middle. 40 miles should have been a breeze for me. And 3k ft should not have been to much of a challenge.

I ate a good keto breakfast. And took electrolyte suppliments. I felt so crappy on that ride. My climb time was the worst I had ever done by 5 minutes. I even had to take a shortcut to get back quicker because I was honestly affraid of injuring myself on the final climb. Complete opposite from how I felt a few days earlier.

And at this point in my life I am just a recreational cyclist. Weekend rides and shorter rides on weekdays. And for the past 6 or 7 months I have been missing a lot of rides. So I am not currently in tip top shape. But not bad.

I am signed up for a 100 mile race with 8,000 feet of climbing in June though so hopefully I can get back up to speed. I did a similar race last year as a carb burner and it worked out well at least well enough.

I’m gonna give it 2 months and see if I can get some performance/endurance back. I may be screwing myself for this race we will see. Loss of cycling performance asside I couldn’t be happier with this diet. I love everything about it. I feel great mentally and physically. I have lost a about 20 lbs sonfar. I just need to figure out a nutrition and training strategy.

Anyway thanks for all your comments. And any advice on getting my cycling back would be returned with extreme grattitude

(charlie3) #11

I’m 2 monrhs into keto and back to lifting and cardio for the past 3 months. I’m assuming that transitioning to fat burning will happen at a similar pace to building aerobic and anarobic fitness. There will be faster gains in the early months then smaller gains over several years. My fitness goals are probably progressing less than optimal because reducing metabolic disease risk and going from slightly overweight to fairly lean are higher priorities. And now I’ve discovered the power of fasting and want to explore that, which might slow muscle strength progress at least a little. In the mean time I’m liking the way I look and feel.

(Chris W) #12

I am not as hard core as you but my end goals are similar.

Give the WOE some time, fat adaption hit for me at around 8 weeks. I had about a year of really screwed up eating and very little exercise for 6 months prior. Best advice is keep the insulin spike minimal that seems to be the quickest way to get to fat adaption, so watch the carbs mainly.

(ianrobo) #13

yes that sounds typical until you feel it kick in and it will be noticeable, one ride, all of a sudden it will be like wow !

My tip to everyone in this is to go for fasted rides and go longer and longer as that supercharges it, So much so that a rarely eat before any ride now and manage them easy.

(mark whittaker) #14

thanks gents! do you have any advice for maintaining electrolyts on a longer ride? I am doing magnesium suppliment before ride with pink salt in my food and poweraid zero/water during ride.

Another think I noticed is that my HR is about 15-20 bpm higher on average. especially on the bike. assuming my electrolytes are ok (How do I really know?) I have heard that it is part of adaptation and once adapted it will be back to normal. I have also heard that a higher heart rate is normal because in keto your blood volume is lower so you heart must pump faster. I don’t know which to believe.

(ianrobo) #15

I just take some tabs called high 5 here in the UK think in the States there are Nunn ones and seems to suffice but generally I have a lot of salt both pink and sea with my food. However generally being fat adapted is not different from carb burners in that respect because I have found I sweat less and I used to sweat a lot !

(Rob) #16

I think it might be the opposite. I’m not an expert but it seems to be that fat adaption benefits for workouts come on later rather than earlier but then come in harder so it is more like a hockey stick with a negative downswing for the first few weeks or months and then upswing past the initial performance level.

(ianrobo) #17

That’s correct which is ideally why you should try and become fat adapted at the beginning of a training season or when targets are not within 3 months. You WILL see a big drop off in performance and surely that is to be expected when changing fuel sources ?