Am I eating too many vegetables?

(Jeremy Storie) #21

I don’t go to the bathroom every day but I’m not constipated. My body uses most of the stuff I put in. Vegetables are full of fiber which you don’t digest so it goes right through you.

(Nick) #22

If you’re LUCKY, it goes right through you. If you’re unlucky, have diverticulitis etc, then it can get stuck in, literally clog you, cause impacted bowels etc. Fibre, ironically, can thus either cause constipation or diarrhoea!

#23

That;s interesting and certainly worth considering, but I’m not sure how a single study of less than 100 people can really prove one way or the other.

Is there a consensus position?

(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #24

Well, the “common sense” consensus seems to be that fiber helps with constipation, but the science doesn’t seem to agree. There’s honestly not much science on the matter once you dig into it, because while there are plenty of studies on fiber, only a couple directly test for its effect on constipation. I’m no expert on the matter, but from the studies I’ve seen fiber intake is mostly seen as unhelpful or harmful in subjects with constipation. This also seems to be more or less the opinion of the more scientifically minded nutrition focused organizations, who otherwise enjoy extolling the virtues and benefits of dietary fiber.

#25

Yet as someone who used to eat more fibre prior to keto (as i’m sure we all did) I was regular and never had any issues with constipation in my life.

(Jeremy Storie) #26

I personally had constipation on a regular basis before I went keto.

(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #27

You can’t say that was because of a higher fiber intake or that a decrease in bowel movements after going keto is because of a reduced fiber intake. There’s too many variables changing at once to determine that. One paper I saw (iirc it was referenced in the study I linked) suggested that increased fiber intake in people who already had regular bowel movements did indeed increase their frequency, but it had the opposite effect on people with constipation.

Keep also in mind that there’s a wide range of what’s healthy as far as bowel movements go, you don’t have to go every day if it doesn’t cause you any issues, and different diets will certainly cause different patterns. A diet consisting of mostly fat and protein is going to have a lower frequency than one high in carbohydrates (not just fiber) but that is not a bad thing in itself. It’s not an issue until you experience actual discomfort or it takes an excessively long time between each bm (more than three days).

#28

The issue i have is not so much going all the time, but with difficulty passing. Keto seems to create a harder stool.

I don’t know for certain that a higher fibre intake was what kept me smooth and regular, but eating a diet significantly lower in fibre has caused that to change.

#29

the recommended amount is about 400mg. I can’t prove that is right or wrong anymore than anyone else who isn’t in the field, but the amounts quoted thus far are way in excess of that. Advocating those doses IMO would require some justification.

EDIT: if this is what you are taking, it doesn’t contain 2100mg of magnesium. that’s the total of all contents. The magnesium portion is about 550, and it’s the least absorbable form.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ZM6®-Xtreme-Vegetarian-Supplement-Testosterone/dp/B00VSI8A7I

#30

I don’t know if there’s enough research to conclusively prove the case against (or perhaps even for) fibre in this regard. As I say, one study isn’t really enough, surely?

(Allie) #31

One of the things you need to learn with keto is that pretty much everything you’ve been told about nutrition in the past is incorrect. I will always trust how my body responds to things over some rule made by someone in an office who I’ve never even met.

#32

That’s fine, but we have to start somewhere. I can’t imagine any reason why the recommended dosage would be wrong deliberately (unlike fat and weight). Obviously everyone has different tolerances, but scofing 9 Mg pills at once can’t be without some consequence.

(Carpe salata!) #33

The ‘recommended’ amount you are quoting is actually the minimum amount below which health problems are common. It is a recommended minimum.

Also, if you re-read my comment that you just misrepresented, I said take three in the morning, three at lunchtime then three at dinner time. That’s what 3x per day usually means. Next time I should spell it out.

This thread reminds me of the scene in Life of Brian where the king asks the guard to watch the prince.

#34

There’s no need to be antagonistic. This is a civil discussion.

You are free to take as much as you like, all I’m saying is that, when advocating a radically different approach, you might consider softening that with some evidence. I’m not even saying you are wrong,

You didn’t mention the type of Mg you took either? 9 MgOxide tablets might be closer to 3 Citrate pills (my normal dosage, which has no effect on bowel movement) given the differences in bioavailability

(Carpe salata!) #35

Thanks @jellybelly for the clarification. I appreciate it.

We are all on a learning curve. high five

(Carpe salata!) #36

Back to respond to the substance…

The use of magnesium as a laxative is an age-old home remedy. Nothing radical about that. Granted, the home remedy is Magnesium Sulfate, a soluble ionic form. Magnesium oxide is more of a covalent insoluble compound so might not have the same osmotic effect. Last time I used the higher dose for laxative effect (2 months ago) I used my usual magnesium which is magnesium maleate. Being a salt of maleic acid, it probably has good aqueous dissociation as it worked for me.

I think the citrate would ionise in solution and cause an osmotic gradient at the right concentration (dose).

Just some thoughts.

(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #37

I think the question is still open enough that there’s room for more studies, and if your personal experience is different from the science I have no issue believing that’s true for your situation. I agree the study by itself doesn’t provide an ironclad case in any way, but it’s not the only study, and it also seems that the medical and nutritional communities have adopted the tentative position that fiber doesn’t help with constipation.

(Sjur Gjøstein Karevoll) #38

Magnesium citrate is very commonly used as a laxative in medicine, with the normal dose containing 2g of elemental magnesium (close to 7 times more than the nutritional dose of 300mg). You shouldn’t use this every day for longer periods, but if you only need it now and then it’s not harmful.

#39

Oxide is more effective

(Brian) #40

As to the question of eating too many vegetables, not all vegetables are created equal. There are some that I rarely eat anymore, and some that I eat all the time. I try for homegrown or organic when I can, decent quality when I can’t.

I may be a bit of a heretic in the group but I am a little different in the way I see things. I am what I would call, “medium protein, medium fat, very low sugar (I try for none but I know a little gets in there anyway), low carbs, and lots of non-starchy vegetables”. I do eat clean meats, which means no bacon, pork, catfish, shrimp, groundhog, squirrel or buzzard, that kind of thing. I do eat eggs from chickens that actually run free range, which are sometimes a little hard to find. And I do eat dairy and cheese, organic when I can get it, and I try to get quality stuff.

It’s somewhat similar to a keto diet, if there is another diet that it fits better into, I haven’t figured that out yet.

FWIW, I grew up mostly vegetarian so I like vegetables. Greens, salads, tomatoes, cukes, green beans (I know, gotta get 'em young), broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, cabbage (love some good homemade sauerkraut), squash, avocado, all stuff that I love, and when mindful of where they’re coming from, loaded with good nutrition. When I don’t get my veggies, I start to feel pretty sluggish. But that’s just me. (I’m also very picky about where my animal products come from but that’s probably a different subject.) Someone might lean me in a direction to avoid certain vegetables. But to convince me that all vegetables are evil and bad for your health,… not gonna happen. Sorry. No offense intended towards those with a different mindset.