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(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #21

@Inna I set my macros based on Bikman’s protein intake recommendation, which is approx 1.5 gr per kilo of total body weight, with a range of 1.4 - 2. He uses total weight rather than lean mass because it’s a lot easier to measure accurately. My current protein macro is 120 grams, which is 1.8 gr/kg. I went for the higher side of the range because I’m an older male, thin all my life and not wanting to get thinner as I age further by losing lean mass. With the protein macro set, I determined my fat macro this way:

From trial and error I already know how many calories I need to consume to maintain my weight of 145 pounds, which I have done consistently for 3 years. That currently is a range of approx 2500-2900 calories. If I eat below/above that range for more than 3-4 consecutive days I will start to lose/gain weight. The center of that range is 2700 calories, which is my current daily target. I use that number to set my fat and carb macros.

I should mention simply because some folks seem to think I’m advocating CICO, that I use calorie numbers as a measure, not a determinant. I am fully aware of the limitations of CICO and the inherent inaccuracy of calorie numbers. I eat to maintain my weight and use calories as a handy measure only. I do not eat to some arbitrary calorie total in order to maintain, lose or gain. I maintain, lose or gain and have observed how the calorie numbers change doing so.

My current fat macro is 240 grams, that is: 2:1 fat:protein grams; 4.5:1 fat:protein calories. The total of protein and fat calories is 2640 and the difference of 60 calories from my 2700 target is my carb macro, that is: 15 grams. That is an absolute max and I seldom reach it. I generally consume 10 grams or less of carbs daily, as incidental to whatever other good foods I eat.

Please note that this formula based on Bikman’s protein recommendations may or may not apply if you’re much heavier than ‘your normal’. You may need to reduce overall fat intake to increase onboard fat burn. I determined what works for me by trial and error. So you’d have to do so for yourself, but maybe this can help get you started. Hope this helps.

#22

Keep in mind all calculators are guessing based on general info that may or may not apply. So they’re not conflicting, they’re using different methods.

Try this one, you’ll need to knwo some measurements. Don’t skip that part.

This one is pretty damn accurate for a calc, having a measured BF% or an RMR test is the best way for accurate numbers. But the measurements and this thing are a good start. Mine numbers were always way off until I got my RMR checked, then when I overrode the calcs with my known RMR and BF% everything started working for me.

This is another one I like for moving the numbers around, advantage of the ketogains one is it’s geared towards keto, so needs a little less work.

(Inna Sterbet) #23

Big Thanks everyone :+1:

(Inna Sterbet) #24

Hi again. Any ideas how to speed up the metabolism? Had couple of spoons of peanut butter on Sunday as a treat, got on the scale last night, extra 800g! It seems like the weight is back the second I consume extra gram of carbs or extra calorie … Actually, start to feel frustrated and depressed, my life is turning into a constant battle with hunger and counting macros at the same time … Sorry for being such a Drama queen, having a ‘fat, ugly’ day.

#25

Lots of ways to speed up the metabolism, but are you under the impression you can eat ANYTHING and not at least gain the weight of what you ate? Drinking a big glass of water will add around that. “Weight” gain, and FAT gain aren’t the same thing. Stay away from nuts if you’re having trouble loosing. Peanut butter withing a couple spoons (my spoons of peanut butter are healthy ones) can EASILY add hundreds of calories, decent amount of carbs etc. When I HAVE to eat something and I feel cheat-ish I go to my chocolate peanut butter fudge protein with sugar free chocolate chips, like a mousse!

(Inna Sterbet) #26

Well, that’s the thing, I feel constant hunger. I thought maybe 100 g of peanut butter will make me stop wanting food. For the last two year I can’t recall even one day when I can say for certain that I felt full. My willpower is on 24/7/365 alert. You can drink only a certain amount of water and peppermint tea… I dream at night about food. I know, very sad!

#27

You might gain at first, but I found zero carb helped me break a stall, gain energy, and not feel hungry. But in the beginning, in particular, the scale goes both up and down due to inflammation, healing, etc. though I continue to lose inches and drop sizes in clothing even if scale doesn’t change. It isn’t a diet but lifestyle effort that takes time. I am now a loose size 9 from a 12, eat unrestricted meat and fat with occasional low carb veg, and have more energy and strength at 56 than I did at 35.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #28

An adequate amount of calories, combined with low carbohydrate intake, will help. The weight gain from eating extra carbohydrate is likely to be largely water, since glucose causes water-retention.

A well-formulated ketogenic diet should be highly satisfying. If you are keeping your carbohydrate intake below 20 g/day, you can safely eat a reasonable amount of protein and as much fat as you need to assuage your hunger. When we eat to satiety, it becomes very easy to go for hours between meals without getting hungry, and as long as we are minimising our carbohydrate intake, our lowered insulin level will stop interfering with the proper operation of our hunger and satiety hormones, so that we can trust our appetite as a guide to how much to eat.

ETA: Too much vegetable oil may make you feel nauseated, so when you eat fat, make sure it is healthy fats, such as butter/ghee, lard, tallow, bacon grease, etc.

(Inna Sterbet) #29

The Macro calculator gave me 86 g of fat and 67 of protein. Was just reading an article from a Health journal where it says that to speed up the metabolism, you need to snack every four hours and eat protein rich foods. What about fasting? The more I read, the more confused I get. 67 g of protein is not much, 75 g of cheese is already 25g plus a chicken breast for dinner, here is your daily amount. All fatty foods have protein also. I don’t eat processed meat, butter is the only thing that is acceptable from the list above. But butter needs to be spread on something. Any baked stuff with almond flour would add more to protein amount. It looks like it doesn’t matter what you eat, there is no winning.

#30

Snacking spikes insulin. Better to eat 1-2 bigger meals until satiety, and not snack at all. Don’t drink calories either, and strongly suggest real food, including unprocessed meat & veg, butter, fat, and no artificial sweetener.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #31

The advice to snack is for people eating large amounts of carbohydrate. The resulting elevated insulin level blocks receptors in the hypothalamus that register the satiety hormone leptin, which is secreted by adipose tissue to signal a sufficient energy reserve that we can afford to stop eating. The lower insulin resulting from the restriction of carbohydrate necessary to enter ketosis restores the functioning of the receptors in the hypothalamus, making snacking unnecessary.

A ketogenic diet should contain a “reasonable” protein intake. What is reasonable will differ from person to person, but it is believed that we have an instinct that regulates protein intake. Some people find they need a bit more protein and a bit less fat to feel satisfied, others find the reverse. The metabolism adjusts to match expenditure to intake, within certain very broad limits, so increasing caloric intake will permit the metabolism to speed up. When eating to satiety, the body tends to peg appetite to a level of intake that permits the metabolism of excess stored fat.

Fasting and nutritional ketosis are very similar metabolic states. The main difference—apart from the food intake, of course—is that fasting ketone levels tend to run a bit higher. Otherwise, the two metabolic states are pretty similar. (The evolutionary logic behind this is that we would feast on a mastodon carcase or whatever until it was all gone, and then the hunters would go out to bring down another kill, while fasting. Hence the elevated ketone levels, to provide adequate energy while hunting during the fast.)

Personally, I find eating to satiety to be much simpler than trying to calculate macros, but if you enjoy using the calculator, make sure that you have set it to Maintenance, even if your goal is to lose fat. The reason is that these calculators generally assume that caloric intake is the main determinant of fat loss, whereas it has been pretty conclusively shown that the body’s hormonal response to food is more significant than caloric restriction.

(Inna Sterbet) #32

I’ll an example of what I eat every day for the last 2 years: I get up at 4.30am, have coffee with nothing in it, just like it that way, arrive to work 6.20, I’ll have a cup of peppermint tea. At 12 noon I’ll have 75 g of cheese (various from week to week) and a cup of coffee, plain again, and one of those 0 Carb 0 Protein 0 Fat 9 Cal jelly pot. At 5.30 when leaving work I’ll have a 25 g of cheese just to keep me going. I get home around 7.15, I’lll have my roasted chicken breast with steamed broccoli and 25 g of very dark chocolate. 8.30 pm bed time. On the weekends I might have some green leaves salad for lunch in stead of cheese. Any ideas where I go wrong?

#33

you ruined it all…LOL…just eat. eat keto as you know you need. Do not restrict to some useless number that truly means nothing. Eat as your body asks. Meat/fat, go for it…want some veg with that lower leaner meat then eat just that. There is no magic number. Your body tells you how to roll…listening is super key on it. 2.5 years you should kinda be in that I know me and what the body is asking and IF YOU hold that and give it want it wants, your body will let loose of extra last lbs etc but it won’t be overnight if ya ‘monkey too much’ with the food choice/the control of everything. Eat keto and let it go back to basic and enjoy life while eating, give it a month and re-evaluate your body and hunger and more. I think you will be fine if ya eat :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #34

Appetite and hunger evolved to ensure that we eat properly. The amount of food you describe would never satisfy me, and I would eventually go off on a binge and forget the diet. I find that eating ketogenically to satiety, however, makes this way of eating sustainable over the long haul. For reasons already stated, you probably need to eat more, if you want to see significant fat loss.

A big part of the problem with our modern notions about diet is, in my opinion, that it is based on the absurd idea that we really ought to be able to out-think two million years of evolution. Listening to our body makes a lot more sense, in my view.

(Inna Sterbet) #35

I really wish I could, my mind craves chocolate cake, white bread and pasta carbonara :see_no_evil: I’ve tried eating a bit more Keto friendly foods but I gain weight within days. My metabolism is so slow that it can’t even deal with a guilty pleasure like couple of spoons of peanut butter. Any ideas where should I start? I’ll try to set the Keto calculator to maintenance settings when calculating my macros tonight as being suggested earlier.

#36

I started losing again when I ate more butter and animal fats and quit trying to diet. Sounds counterintuitive I know, but hormones make things way more complex than a simple calories in / calories out equation. It also made the plan sustainable indefinitely for me. Willpower won’t work.

#37

I chose to break carb cravings by cutting them almost totally and eating lots of meat and fat. Tons of eggs cooked every which way. Seafood dipped in butter. Steak steak and more steak, with blue cheese and some butter.

Do that for 30 days and I bet cravings will be gone or manageable.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #38

For me, one of the best ways to deal with carb cravings is to take a page from A.A. and take things a day at a time. I can have all the glazed doughnuts I want, tomorrow. Today, I’ll stay away from Dunkin Donuts and postpone eating all the carbs. (And I’ll also avoid ordering from the Italian place that gives several loaves of yummy yeast bread along with every order! :grin:)

It also helps that experiencing true satiety has taught me the difference between real hunger and a craving for carbohydrate. Another benefit of eating to satiety appears to be that, on those occasions when a craving does get the better of me, I am far less likely to binge, because of the lack of real hunger. And for some reason, I just never crave romaine or broccoli.

(Inna Sterbet) #39

When you say satiety you mean you can eat as many chicken drumsticks as you possibly can? I would absolutely love that! What about the protein being used as a fuel in stead of stored fat? I thought that too much of protein will bump you out of ketosis in no time?

#40

I see satiety as eating all you want / need without stuffing yourself like Thanksgiving Day. That can be a whole lot of food at times though, so learning to trust the process can be a bit scary at first. But your body has to learn to trust you and the fact that it will no longer be denied the real nutrition it craves by being filled with empty carbs /calories.