ADF - I think I broke myself

#1

I finally decided to create an account to ask about this, because it’s getting bad.

I started keto 1,5 years ago, and when I first started I couldn’t finished 2 eggs scrambled in an ounce of butter. For most of my time on keto I found it hard to overeat and it was generally like the egg situation above. Eventually I stopped losing weight and heard about alternate day fasting, so I tried it (one meal every second day), and it worked like the beginning of keto all over again.

I did it for a couple of months, hit my goal weight, weened into one meal a day slowly so I wouldn’t gain, I didn’t. I was really hungry after going off ADF and thought it would go away because I was hungry when I first started it and it went away then, so why not now? Well let me tell you, it sure didn’t go away. I weened from OMAD to 2MAD which is what I currently do, and I was still really hungry, but again I thought it would eventually go away, because that’s how fasting is, right?

It’s been 5 months since I did ADF and I’m still hungry all the time. I remember one time we had a family dinner and I ate like 1/4 a turkey (yes, an entire turkey.) I had one plate, was like “ok, I think I’m comfortable”, and 2 minutes later it was like my stomach emptied completely even though It was clearly expanded from eating the turkey.

Ever since I went off ADF, I’ve never had the “egg situation”, and never felt satiated or full (and I know the difference from before.) People on here say to ask yourself “would you eat broccoli and salmon?” to test if you’re actually hungry, well, I would eat steamed salmon and broccoli without seasoning and butter, I would eat raw vegetables, even the dandelion greens outside sound fine to me.

I think I broke myself doing ADF and I’m scared. I can manage fine to stay under 20 carbs, but I will eat 4000 calories easy, and have, if I eat to hunger. I know most of you don’t believe in CICO, but that’s a lot of calories for a small female like myself who had a hard time reaching 1200 when she first started keto. I don’t want to have to track to make sure I’m not eating half a cow everyday. I’ve already gained 20 pounds back out of the 85 (I was obese.)

What can I do to fix this? How can I recreate the “egg situation” as my normal again? Does anybody else have an experience like this? I’m scared this won’t go away. This group is my last resort, I really don’t know what else to do and I’m steadily gaining everyday because I feel no satiety, no limits, nothing. I’ll take anything anyone has to say.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #2

Can you tell us about your starting stats and how much weight you lost? Do you think it’s possible your body doesn’t want to be at the goal weight you determined and is fighting to put some back on?

If so, I’ve read about people holding steady at a particular weight while their body adjusts and eventually it chills out and lets them settle in or lose again.

Or I wonder if eating more has messed with your satiety hormones. I look forward to hearing what others think. Search on ghrelin and leptin for more information.

#3

Sure. My weight was about 210 in the beginning, and I was about 125 at low weight, 130 being my goal. I’m about 5’5.

(PSackmann) #4

What does your typical day of macros look like? I’m wondering if you need to add fat now that your body fat has dropped so much.

#5

I was wondering about fat too. How much fat are you typically eating daily?

#6

@goohsmom @GreeneggsNham

2260 calories, 10% total carbs, 72% fat, 18% protein
19g net carbs, 185g fat, 100g protein

#7

bump?

(Frank) #8

Isn’t 10% of 2260 cal 226? That would be more like 55g net carbs a day. Is my math right here?

(Bunny) #9

Short Answer: you slowed down your metabolism and brought it to grinding halt by over-doing it with the fasting and caloric restriction!

Why this happens?

Remedy: Eat more quantity of healthier foods for maintenance!

(Karim Wassef) #10

Fasting doesn’t slow metabolism unless you “reduce calories” instead of “remove calories”. Caloric restriction of eating less is hormonally different from eating nothing and will slow metabolism. Dr Fung goes into detail on this:

I had a healthy appetite too, but I now have to force myself to eat to gain weight on keto. I do believe that satiation is key to having a healthy lifestyle. Here are the hunger drivers (for me):

  1. Any carbs seem to trigger hunger for me - even 10g will do it. Even fibrous carbs like veggies and nuts will do it. It’s harsh to accept but plants just make me hungrier.

  2. Some foods have addictive properties (opioid like) and they literally make the brain crave them. Sugar is one, but even at low carb - I have some addictive foods. For example, raw cacao has nearly no carbs, is mostly fiber, but has a strong addictive effect on me. Coffee likewise. I basically have to take days off where I won’t have any.

  3. Hunger is sometimes driven by non-hunger needs like dehydration, low salt, or low nutrients in general. I make sure to eat my salt, take supplements and drink enough daily to avoid this.

  4. Excess protein drives hunger. I love protein and I weightlift so I use it well, but it doesn’t satisfy me as well as fat. If I’m hungry, I will try to intake non-dairy fats and that will satisfy me.

  5. I fast for multiple days. Fasting reconditions my body to reuse its own fat whenever it needs to and it reduces the volume of food that needs to get into the gut before feeling satisfied.

  6. I recondition my hunger response by pushing myself when I’m hungry. So if I would go for a walk or exercise with weights or just distract myself with anything physical. The activity forces my body to find internal sources of energy and the hunger subsides after an hour or so.

  7. Emotional - a lot of eating is habits and emotional management. Stress is a driver here and simple activity can help. Walking, dancing, spending time with people you like, comedy shows, etc… find other sources of emotional satisfaction.

If you want to get out of ADF, try multi-day. It worked for me.

(Omar) #11

If we break ourselves with such behavior, the entire human race will will be distinct.

how about your energy level?

have you observed any trends up or down ?

I have a feeling this has to do with stomach acid and digestive enzymes.

your stomach maybe full but nutritionally you are hungry because you are not digesting the food you eating.

(Bunny) #12

It most certainly will slow down your metabolism!

You don’t want to fast continuously (without medical supervision) or over do a good thing, “too much autophagy will do the exact opposite” as Dr. Fung also points out “…life is about balance…”

And only if you have a valid medical reason (diabetes etc.) for doing so, fasting and caloric restriction is not the answer for burning body fat on otherwise healthy person long-term that does not have a medical condition and wants to just burn body fat?

A lot of misunderstanding going on with this whole panacea caloric restriction, fasting thing?

I would never encourage anyone to damage their metabolism because I think I’m doing the right thing when I’m really misquoting and misrepresenting a medical professional?

Let’s get with program and STOP the pseudo-platonics?

(Windmill Tilter) #13

I’m sorry you’re in such a tough spot. It must be extremely frustrating after finally getting down to your goal weight. Hopefully someone here can help. A couple thoughts

  1. 10% carbs at 2260kcal is 56g of carbs. You mentioned 19net, but maybe there is something in those carbs that’s causing the hunger. What are you eating for carbs?
  2. Alternate Day Fasting. This means different things to different people. Did you do strict adf with 0 kcal on fasting days, or the variation where you eat 500kcal of food and ghee in the coffee?
  3. Artificial Sweeteners: These seem to cause a lot of people serious problems, one of which is screwed up satiety signals. Are you eating any?
(Karim Wassef) #14

The video shows the misinterpretation of the fasting effect. If someone has gained 20lb when they didn’t want to and they’re experiencing hunger, and the deduction is that they broke their metabolism by fasting … that’s contradictory to my personal experience and what Dr Fung goes over in his books and the video I linked.

It’s not personal - it’s the science. Fasting doesn’t break you unless you go underweight. Doesn’t sound like the OP got there.

(Karim Wassef) #15

Yes. That’s the poor nutrition element but due to poor nutrient absorption. ACV helped me with this.

(Bunny) #16

Let’s Clarify this to tie up any lose ends?

Long-term <==continuously fasting (ADF) and restricting calories without MEDICAL SUPERVISION once the goal or what ever reasoning has been reached? NOT SUSTAINABLE?

Exactly!

(Karim Wassef) #17

Sounds like we’re in agreement? :slight_smile:

:thinking:

I personally fast Wednesday Thursday and Friday every week and keto OMAD the other days. It’s totally sustainable at 17% bf. I’m now prepping for a much longer EF so I’m changing that up but my usual is 3 days fasting every week.

(PSackmann) #18

Have you checked out some of the maintenance threads on the forum? The macros don’t look far off, (although the carbs percentage vs net don’t match). Are there certain foods that trigger the hunger more than others? I know this is frustrating, I hope you find an answer to what’s going on soon.

#19

@atomicspacebunny I am less confident, either yay or nay on the fasting position you seem to take.

I do it, I like it, and it has MOST DEFINITELY been a powerful tool for me, both during my weight loss period and in maintenance

I’ve read Fung, and many others. What makes you hold this position? “It most certainly will slow down your metabolism!”

Thanks in advance.

Stan

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #20

My practical suggestion for you is to take a 30-40 minute walk everyday as ghrelin can be stimulated by exercise.

I am not sure why this has occurred I hope you can figure it out.

I think that what all of us ketoers need to remember is that a truly healthy body probably has more fat than we want. The vanity weight is so hard to lose because that is the last of the excess reserves and that body views those as important.