Adequate fiber is a real problem

food

(Jane) #81

I am going by what Cronometer is reporting. It shows my BPC has 2g of fiber and I had 3 today, so that’s 6g right there.

I had some burrata cheese and it counted 2g. I also had some cottage cheese but that was 0g

I got a tuna sub from Subway and ditched the bread. That gets tricky so I picked tuna salad and it added 0.8g fiber. May not be accurate.

Swiss cheese on lunch burger was 0g

Ahhh… for some reason it set my goal for fiber to 21g instead of 25g so 36%, not 45%.

But that is w/o even trying and not a normal day for me. I usually have a salad and some vegetables for dinner. I’m not home and it was easier to grab the burger and sub. Worked a bit late today and didn’t feel like sitting in a restaurant by myself.


(Jane) #82

Cronometer reports net carbs so the fiber has been subtracted. Sorry - should have been more specific.


(Jane) #83

And I still don’t believe “most Americans only get half the RDA fiber”

Not the way we eat. It would only apply to keto folks and we are quite the minority right now.

Making up statistics to sell their products. Wouldnt be the first time.


#84

I think there are definitely differences between individuals based on gestational, infancy, and childhood microbiome health/harm.

Sure - one can survive on carnivore foods without greens, grasses, seaweed, or berries - but the fact is that such foods when in bioregions or traded were nibbled on and stored by apparently lots of ancient pre-civilizations indigenous & aboriginal peoples. Also, as already pointed out in this here thread, without the nutrients of organ meats (eaten raw, traditionally), raw oysters/fish eggs, and with food harvested from nutrient depleted soils, we are much lacking compared to our ancestors.

I think the key is a healthy gut that supports a healthy mental state. Depression on longer term low-carb/keto can be a thing that is a heavier level than the normal transitory depression we all experience in the ups and downs of life in a stressful society. Bacterial imbalances in the colon can be a thing on longer term zerocarb/keto (as in, 6-7 years). When the good bacteria in the colon are lacking due to overuse of antibiotics since childhood, and excess sugars - it means that our bodies aren’t producing nearly enough butyrate (the good bacteria in the colon produce butyrate). Butyrate in the colon not only fuels ketosis, it also has been found to be protective against colon cancer, apparently. So, theoretically, one can follow a LCHF/keto way of eating and still have gut troubles/excess fermentation, nutrient absorption issues, and cloying depression - because of pre-existing conditions, ie, the after-effects of a childhood in industrial society.

Some folks - myself included - have found that healing the gut (also called the ‘enteric nervous system’ due to its abundant neurons) makes as much sense as LCHF/keto.

Personally, I believe (and it is a central principle of eastern medicine) that the digestive system is the source of all functional health - and that we are meant to be able to tolerate fluctuation in food supply by being both fat-adapted and having enzymatic strength and fortitude. We’re meant to have a “warrior gut” and a largely joyful mental & emotional outlook.

Though supplementing with Ginger has helped me dramatically heal my gut enzyme production and eliminate dairy bloat/phlegm whilst reducing my cortisol-driven midlife belly fat storage, I found that it was after making doubly sure I had veg fiber daily and/or resistant starch from a little (2 tblsp) refried basmati rice, my neurogenesis really had an uptick and emotional outlooks got solidly elevated and way more resilient. There are 4 kinds of resistant starch, and they have different impacts - worth looking into if you are fat-adapted and yet suffer from low emotional stamina, or basic depression on keto. This may be controversial to some, fine! I think it’s critical to acknowledge that most of us in industrial society have had out of whack guts since even infancy - and that unless we’ve healed a ton by eating raw organ meats prebiotics, and probiotics we may need some further protocols and nourishments for a greater experience of ketogenic benefits.

For more on this, see the work of microbiologist Norm Robillard (recommended by cornerstone LCHF physicians the Drs. Eades) and pharmacologist Grace Liu to decide for yourself what your present gut health is and what may help enhance you health as well as healthy longevity.


#85

Also… this short 3 minute talk from the very wonderful Welsh paleo-keto physician Sarah Myhill MD, on the subject of biodiversity in the gut, in a body comprised of 90% bacteria:

“My guess is that every different food or fiber has a microbe in it… therefore the greatest variety of foods you eat the better varying throughout the seasons”

“Given the right substrate, bacteria can double their numbers every 20 minutes.”


#86

Same, but only 2ish months.


#87

If you eat an entire avocado you get 9.2 grams for dietary fibre and 2.4 grams of net carbohydrates. Additionally, 100 grams of pumpkin seeds equates to 6.5 grams of dietary fibre and 8.2 grams of net carbohydrates. Seems like quite the bang for your fibre buck, and they are delicious too. That’s a 15.7 grams of dietary fibre/10.6 grams of carbohydrates ratio, YOU ARE ALMOST HALF WAY THERE!

ETA - the amounts were sourced from Cronometer.


(Larsen) #88

You can have mine :slight_smile:


#89

I love avocados. And the additional benefit of keeping me very regular is awesome! :smiley:


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #90

Since so many of our dietary recommendations are not based in any real scientific data (which is why we are in this mess in the first place), I just think it would be nice to have some studies to refer to indicating the body’s need for fiber. Obviously, whole societies have functioned just fine without it, so where did the American RDA of 25 g of fiber come from? Do they back it up with anything, or is this as “scientific” as the RDA for salt and the recommendation not to eat saturated fat?


#91

I think this is very interesting. I find it all very overwhelming though. Where does one start? I don’t want to hijack the thread, but would love to hear more from you on how to heal your digestion for optimal overall (but specifically mental) health.


(Todd Allen) #92

The op is correct, there is a ton of research that promotes beneficial aspects of fiber.

On the other hand my cursory review of top cited articles found they focused on grain consumption. I’m fairly convinced that consumption of whole grain products is healthier than processed grain / highly refined white flour “foods”. But due to their carbohydrate content and my diminished tolerance for carbohydrates I avoid grains.

The best supported benefits of fiber are reduced risk of type 2 diabetes, heart disease and many cancers. Pretty much the same benefits as reducing digestible carbohydrates. So it seems perfectly reasonable to me to question the benefits of fiber in the context of a keto diet. I have yet to see studies of keto + fiber.


(CharleyD) #93

Indeed, most of us are here because we’ve taken it upon ourselves to read, learn and implement a ketogenic diet in the face of complaints of ‘it’s a fad, it’s unsustainable, it’ll clog your arteries, it’s bad for the environment’ from docs, friends and family.

Even if not all of us have read Taubes, or Lustig, we’re all of a sense that we’ve been lied to at least since the '77 dietary guidelines, if not from the Seven Countries Study from the '50s. So yeah, your impression isn’t wrong, but it’s for a cause.


#94

Yeah, it sure iis interesting - I’d start by reading up on the work of Grace Liu and Norm Robillard (I hyperlinked their names to websites above) on microbiome/enteric nervous system healing. Gut butyrate production and how to enhance ketosis neurogenesis is a vast realm, but at least there are tasty ways to do it :wink:

For me, boosting the MCTs via 2 tblsp coconut oil daily plus beef liver capsules (B vitamins) and the aforementioned gut feeding along with the lovely boost of mitochondrial power have taught me a lot about mental resilience. :coconut: :dove: :rainbow:


#95

Me too,

Still waiting to see if @semaria will be impressed with it but seems he is more interested in conflict and not getting more fibre into his diet.


#96

Some very good points crickette. I love avocados. Absolutely delicious. The texture is like no other food.


(Chris) #97

Opinion: You need fiber if you eat suboptimal foods. It does help push the “crap” (read: bread and other trash) through your intestines so you can get it where it needs to go…in the toilet. RDAs are a massive joke once you drop fake foods.

I, for one, would love some more studies. I’d love something I feel confident pointing to. I’d love if people would prove themselves wrong and then actually publish the data.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #98

From your mouth to God’s ear, bro!


(Jane) #99

On a SAD I would agree… but the few times I had a high carb day (planned) I spent the next day in the bathroom as the carbage moved through at an alarming rate and volume. So definitely different chemistries going on as a fat burner! n=2 since it happens to my husband also.


(Lonnie Hedley) #100

N=3. I’m a unicorn so I don’t worry about crazy carb binge days. But I always pay the next day.