Adequate fiber is a real problem

food
(Richard Ames) #50

Well, it’s not as if dietary fiber hasn’t been extensively studied, and there actually are many studies that “suggest,” that lack of fiber increases risk of some forms of cancer, most notably colon cancer. So the question about lack of any fiber in keto isn’t academic. No one has ever studied long-term keto in statistically significant populations, so it is certainly possible that 15 years down the road, keto adherents will see a spike in cancer diagnosis’s and cancer deaths among them. Please don’t say that is highly unlikely, or that I am probably wrong. This is not alarmism, but reasonable thinking, and prudent thinking. As you said yourself, we have no idea yet about many diet related issues, but we do have this library of data out there about the health benefit of fiber, that has drawn correlation between lack of fiber, colon cancer, colitis, diverticulitis, and other aliments. And keto fanatics can’t dismiss it away by saying Big Fiber is pushing it, because there is no Big Fiber, no bogeyman. Correlation isn’t necessarily causation, I get that, but the seriousness of the issue and just saying zero fiber is cool in this case, and then being wrong about that down the road is, well, significant.

And about the “keto community.” This wasn’t about me, even though I’ve been verbally manhandle by keto fans at times. It’s really about what I’ve observed here, and over at the Reddoit forums, on blogs, on YouTube videos, etc. Ketoism has an aggressive edge to it that is not at all helpful to finding true answers to the human diet riddle. The attitude does border on some ideology, like it’s a “movement,” a sort of we’re-mad-as-hell-and-not-going-to-take-it-anymore thing. It’s quite weird. I wish it would stop.

In the mean time, I’m enjoying my own experiment with keto, going on six weeks now, and seeing a lot of benefits I like. I’m working on finding a fiber solution I feel okay about. One thing I didn’t expect at all is that my mood has been consistently better starting about a month ago, which was when I entered into optimal ketosis (I do blood sampling). So that surprise has been quite remarkable. And welcome.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

(Raj Seth) #51

Psyllium husk? all fiber - little else. Indians (not red :smiley:) have been having it for centuries. It is dual purpose - works for loose and tight stools equally well. I use 4 tbsp to break any fast longer than 2 days.
That said, I am close to ZC, and dont have more than a few grams of fiber daily. I have never had issues. And, yes, I had a colonoscopy - clean bill of health - 10 yrs return.

With a keto diet, the waste from ingested food is WAY less. Yes, the body still has :poop: to dispose of, so you will still :poop:, but the volume of :poop: should be way way down. Doesnt matter if you :poop: less as long as you are not backed up. If you are, psyllium husk is the answer.

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I use this one - but I get it for near $0 from India. Amazon has loads of local brands

(Brian) #52

Richard, since colon cancer seems to be on your mind, maybe this article may be of interest:

(Richard Ames) #53

I will buy some. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

#54

Great I was planning to try psyllium husks already, now I.am more motivated. Isn’t 4 spoons a lot? I used pre-keto only 1 spoon, in a big glass.

(Bunny) #55

Interesting:

Probable Cause: “… There have been many attempts to explain why red meat[3] is different, but probably the simplest explanation is closest to the truth. Heating. Excessive heat[1][3] gives rise to many different new substances[1], some of which are potentially[2] carcinogenic[1].

The best example is again smoking. It’s not the tobacco or the nicotine that increase the risk of cancer – it’s allowing the tobacco to burn and inhale all the new substances formed during combustion[1][3]. …” …More

Footnotes:

[1] “… MeIQx, 2-amino-3,4,8-trimethylimidazo[4,5-f]quinoxaline (4,8-DiMeIQx) and PhIP were shown to be present in dry-heated meat juice …” ibid. ”…Heterocyclic amine (HCA) mutagens are produced in a wide variety of cooked or processed meats and fish and are known to be carcinogenic in rodents and considered to be probable[2] human carcinogens (Sugimura and Sato, 1983; Layton et al., 1995; Skog et al., 1998)…” …More

[2] Probable? …how much exposure e.g. a constant dietary staple and under what thermal heat conditions before eating?

[3] Dr. Royal Lee, Conversations in Nutrition - Volume One

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #56

margot17 start with one tablespoon, if you haven’t been getting much fiber, 4 might be overkill. When I use psyllium I only use one tablespoon, it usually takes care of any issues. My husband can’t take a spoonful. I have a sister that uses 3 to get results (survivor of colon cancer) so we are different in what we need to use.

#57

Fiber - try looking at tahini.

#58

I stumbled across this video today:

#59

I mix all my 6 different seeds together and then fill a small pill bottle with them. I then just pour a small amount in my mouth and chew them very well. That way they will not oxidize as they would quite fast in a coffee grinder. I never heat them either.
I mix a whole pale-full together and freeze them in separate Ziploc bags with 2 cups of seeds in each bag.
Take a bag out of the freezer as needed. They are really great also to carry around just in case you get very hungry. Friends that I am with will ask me for a swig quite often because they are so satisfying and addicting.

#60

Whole flax seed is hard for the body to digest. You can grind it to a meal and use it as part of a hot cereal or a “flour” for keto bread, etc.

#61

Have you ever tried making bread with it? I keep meaning to try this recipe…

#62

Agree. I think that most people on this discussion board (in the short time I’ve been involved), are looking at the general guidelines for keto and modifying it for themselves however it works for them. Whether it is the exact number of carbs/day, amount of protein, amount of fiber, folks are doing their own thing in the way that works best for them. As a T2DM, I started around 80g carbs/day, then went to 60g, then 50g, then 40g, and now I’m usually under 30g and many days I’m below 20g. I do not take a fiber supplement although I have done in the past pre-keto. Now, I eat the veggies that I want and tabulate the carbs accordingly. I’m in my 5th week of keto, and what I have not had is the diabetic neuropathy that affected my GI tract so much, causing massive diarrhea and brutal pain. I would have to go lie down for several hours. Believe me, I don’t miss that.

Instead, I now am quite regular, not giant BMs, but daily smaller ones. As long as I get some veggies from at least 2 of my meals, I’m happy. I’m not constipated any more either, which cycled with the GI neuropathic diarrhea. As some folks have said, we do n=1, or YOU DO YOU.

(Todd Allen) #63

Looks like a good recipe. I mostly do crackers and sometimes crusts. Getting the texture right on leavened breads is challenging and I’ve mostly stopped trying and just go with nut and seed loafs as my bread substitute to minimize disappointment. I sometimes do a version of the nut and seed loaf with ground flax, rolled oats and chia mixed with kefir and let it ferment a few days into a bubbly sourdough’ish mash before adding the eggs and additional nuts and seeds and then let it rise for a couple hours before baking. It produced a dense bread texture with a bit of tang that I liked a lot but oats are fairly carby so I don’t use them often.

(Terence Dean) #64

You should try the facebook keto community, if you think this place is hostile, you won’t last 2 minutes there!

#65

I agree. The flax loaf does look like it has potential so must try it. I mostly just end up thinking, “I can’t be bothered!” especially when it usually turns out to be a bit pants!

(Terence Dean) #66

Yes, I can confirm that Psyllium husk is the go to on Keto if you are concerned about fiber intake. Try to mix it in with food, apparently it could cause blockages if you drink it in one big lump, never experienced that personally but its what I read. I don’t use a lot of it but I do use it everyday, about a teaspoon in my omelette mix works well for me.

#67

Interesting recipe. I’m always looking for something new and I’ll have to give it a try. The recipe I use has more ingredients and has a wheat bread flavor and look to it. I almost gave up on baking bread. I used to call my keto bread, keto brick :frowning:. I read that you must re-grind all dry ingredients, almond flour, flax seed meal and psyllium husk powder so that they’re super fine before you use them in a recipe. I just put them in my mini food processor. It works and results in a bread that rises nicely and has a tender crumb.

(Brian) #68

Had a recipe for me to naan many months back. It had a generous amount is psyllium husk in it, I believe for texture. Oh, yeah, it moved me. :slight_smile:

It was tasty but potent.

#69

Let me know how it turns out if you give it a go.