About to stop

(TJ Borden) #21

Name any other one of Newton’s laws, or another instance where the law of thermodynamics (physical) is applied to a living being (bioligial).

It’s not that the law of thermodynamics isn’t valid, it’s just mis-applied.

(TJ Borden) #22

Honey is natural too, but it’s best to avoid it when trying to get into ketosis and become fat adapted (which is really the goal).

(karen) #23

gravity.

Actually, e=MC2 could be applied as well.

And my point was to fit my macros into a reasonable calorie count. At a 5% carb macro, why would I even consider eating honey? I call straw man.

(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #24

I’m on my third week now, and I didn’t see any confirmation that I was in ketosis until week 2. I didn’t start losing any weight until week 2 either. The initial drop was most likely water weight, but now I’m seeing fractions of a pound come off every day for the last 3-4 days in a row. I’ve also steadily felt better and more energetic from one day to the next. I know they say that fat adaptation usually comes in 6-8 weeks time, but there’s a gradient in between where you slowly feel better and better until you get there.

In short, you need to give keto more than a week to start expecting results of any kind, and the best stuff doesn’t come until even further down the road. It sucks, but that’s life. You do what you have to do because that’s what you have to do.

(Karen Hemry) #25

If your life style has basically reasonably low carbohydrates no prepared foods and then you become more conscious of upping your fats in order to be in ketosis would it take longer for your body to develop that state since it’s not going into any real shock if you will from a reduction of a bunch of processed foods and carbohydrates

(TJ Borden) #26

Gravity applies to our physical mass, it doesn’t play a significant role in our biological system. Where as people try to say thermodynamics is the core of our biological system when it comes to energy management.

We have hormones that dictate how energy managed. Insulin, specifically, dictated if energy coming in is going to be burned or stored. Thermodynamics can’t account for the effect hormones have, or the role they play.

#27

Agreed, Robert. Everyone’s body chemistry is different. So don’t take one example as the rule.

We started with a two week fast, and that worked really well for us, but my co-worker, who didn’t need to lose any weight, couldn’t fast for more than 18 hours.

(Pete A) #28

Patience.

(TJ Borden) #29

Ketosis triggers when you’re not providing enough glucose to power your system. Because many adults haven’t been in a state of nutritional ketosis for decades, it’s not a fast transition (unlike youth, which switch back and forth very easily and naturally).

A simple “reduction” in carbohydrates might eventually trigger ketosis, but the reason we recommend the 20gram mark is because that is a level that will force your system to look elsewhere for energy, and do it pretty quickly. That other source is ketones, and the body used fat for ketones.

If you normally ate 300 grams of carbs a day and reduced it to 200, your system would just adjust to having those 200 grams, but it may not look to fat for energy.

The flaw with CICO, and the reason reducing calories DOES NOT WORK is because with prolonged reduction in calories (which would also apply to a reduction of carbs without replacing those calories with fat), you metabolism slows to meet the energy coming in. That’s really the core of why thermodynamics isn’t applied correctly.

When we apply the law of thermodynamics to our metabolism we view it as trying to match what we take in to what our body is going to burn. The problem is, at the same time, our body is adjusting how much it will burn based on the energy it has available.

Since our body stores excess energy as fat, if we keep feeding our system carbs, it has no reason to use that stored energy. In order for our systems to use that stored fat we have to both lower insulin (the fat storage hormone) and achieve a state of nutritional ketosis so that our systems can efficiently use it for fuel.

(Empress of the Unexpected) #30

For me it depends on the time I day I use the strips. I only get a trace or light pink reading later in the day. Morning shows negative.

(TJ Borden) #31

The pee strips are really only good for finding out if you’re IN ketosis, not for verifying the level. It’s great when starting out, because you’ll be able to see when you get there. The strips are only able to measure excess ketones, so once you’re adapted and using ketones more efficiently, it’s not uncommon for the strips to read low, and that’s fine.

(karen) #32

The law I’m referring to is #1: the energy in a closed system can neither be created nor destroyed. The energy (calories, in this case) has to be accounted for somehow. This is why people assume CICO. I’ve given lots of house room to where that energy / mass goes in ketosis - urine, sweat, breath, heat, metabolic and muscle motion, and the idea that where it goes in ketosis is different from where it goes in glycolysis or other metabolic process, but it has to go somewhere. Organic systems do not trump basic physics, they work within the laws of it.

(Karen Hemry) #33

Not my best attribute ! I am going to cheat for a few days, with alcohol. Just because I’m going to New Orleans for the weekend but I will try to keep my alcohol to that which is the lowest in carbohydrates

#34

Almost a week and you’re going to quit? As with any diet, it takes time. If you want instant gratification and results, you’re setting yourself up to be disappointed. Good luck on your keto journey, be patient and stick with it and it’ll pay off in the end.

(Ron) #35

If this is true then maybe you have already seen these. If not maybe they might help-



(Roy D Rushing Jr ) #36

I am also going on a trip this weekend. We’re floating the San Marcos river in Texas. Much drinking will occur on that 5-6 hour trip. I plan to stay keto though. I’m bringing 750ml of vodka and some Powerade zeros to mix it with. Probably not the best tasting concoction, but I’ll be enjoying myself with the rest while merely putting my ketosis on pause. If I wanted to drink for flavor I’d be having beer anyway. Afterwards we’ll probably be eating somewhere. Easy enough to find keto option on most menus. At worst I’d have to request a bun less burger and some butter. Barring any lapses in my willpower I think I can make it just fine. We’ll see…

(TJ Borden) #37

Good, we agree. Now how do you apply that to overcoming metabolic/hormonal derangement to release stored energy to be usable energy.

Simply stating the law is just like (as Gary Taubes puts it) saying: the key to being wealthy is to take in more money than you spend.

The statement isn’t wrong. But it has no value or direction to someone wanting to become wealthy.

(Karen Hemry) #38

I have them! That is why I said i was not in keto as the color never changes

(karen) #39

And I totally agree with everything you said here. CICO is a flawed model because it doesn’t acknowledge the metabolic difference between burning fat and carb. But being in ketosis or being fat adapted doesn’t mean you can eat unlimited calories, even if they’re fat, without those calories going somewhere, and there’s only so much energy that heat, sweat and pee can account for. Unless we consider spontaneous combustion, at some point I contend it’s stored in the body.

ETA: which means that ‘overcoming metabolic/hormonal derangement to release stored energy to be usable energy’ is a huge key to weight loss, and apparently ketosis is the mechanism we’re looking toward to accomplish that, but another key is some rational moderation of calorie intake. I’m not saying low calorie, per se, I’m just saying it’s possible to overdo energy intake - at best, you can’t expect to burn your own fat if you’re ingesting more fat than your system is using in a fat adapted / keto state.

(Karen Hemry) #40

like I stated I was under the impression it happened faster, NO WORRIES, I will perservere