? about this stupid protein issue

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #41

Don’t sweat the protein.

Eat whatever protein you need, keep your carbs low, and fill it out with fat and you’ll be fine.

(Crow T. Robot) #42

And yet, the reported health improvements are nothing less than astounding. Once again, YMMV – you never know until you’ve tried it yourself.

(Robert C) #43

Bodybuilders take steroids and achieve nothing less than astounding results. YMMV - you never know until you’ve tried it yourself.

“But, wait a minute, they’re ignoring emerging science that habitual steroid you may have long term consequences.”

Yes they are

(Crow T. Robot) #44

Nice try, but these are two completely different things. I would never equate eating natural food with taking drugs to achieve unnatural results.

(Robert C) #45

I am not comparing natural or unnatural things.

I am comparing purely the logic and mindset of people that will ignore (or discount) future problems for short term desires.

Remove the steroids vs protein - just the logic:

People do X to achieve desired result. X may have long term consequences.

All I am saying is research well whatever X is unless X has been around for a hundred years with lots of scrutiny (like high fat keto).

A carnivore argument is that it has been around for much much longer than that but - what to focus on is whether it has fallen prey to the same food environment issues we all face. Did our ancestors eat “nose to tail” or did the only it muscle (steaks) after trimming the fat?

(Troy) #46

Just reading this
Maybe more appropriate for a gluconeogrnesis thread?:thinking:
Oh well😉
Protein related as well ( end of article )

https://www.ruled.me/what-is-gluconeogenesis/

#47

Well, part of this is very much a ‘first world problem’ in industrial, city-based economically flexible culture (thanks to Costco and Trader Joe’s, and gourmet farmer’s markets). “Shall I have wild salmon today or Australian lamb? Chicken or Pig? Duck Eggs or Chicken Eggs” :fish: :sheep: :chicken: :bacon: :fried_egg: with my :avocado: … rather than the high-carb staples of poverty that are distributed by food banks and readily available in the cheapest fast foods - rice, beans, potatoes, white bread, etc.

Paleoanthropology seems to indicate that our ancient ancestors prized animal fat and organ meat and animal blood over muscle meat. Reports of the Inuit were that they fed muscle meat to the dawgs - rarely eating it and preferring the organs and fat. Another point, is that plenty of ancestors enjoyed organs & meat RAW - along with raw oysters (a primary food of coastal indigenous and urban poor people when oysters were considered unclean by the wealthy - ironically, long before industrial pollutants were an issue in seafood). There are enormous digestive differences between raw meat and cooked, no doubt.

When I think of how 99% of human history was fat-adapted gatherer-hunter - and the realities of land-based living, seasonal changes, and constant randomness that informed their lives - I conclude that fat-adapted fasting is the primary mammalian state we are meant to inhabit.

Such a hormonally flexible state makes it easy to fast (and rest the digestive system) by eating less snacks and meals per day - and also thoroughly enjoying feasts! For the fat-adapted, in times of plenty, the brain is fed well, and in times of scarcity or stress, fasting is much easier to cope with than the carb-based hunger pains of modern dietary cultures.

My experience with this is that fat-adapted IF with OMAD/TMAD in a 4-8 hours window naturally reduces my protein intake compared to eating 3 meals a day plus snacks - yet provides plenty of fuel. I’m grateful to be able to eat two servings of protein per day most days (25-60 gms a day, which is considered low in a non-fasting context) - but also blessed to have the ghrelin/leptin hormonal health in order to truly enjoy fasting. However: for those who are metabolically deranged, there may be long term, possibly irredeemable ghrelin/leptin imbalances, and I think in such cases that higher protein along with the high fat (including snacking on nuts) may well play a much needed, stabilizing, and satiating role. The delineations between protein deficiencies and protein vary according to one’s health in the industrial foods culture - and there are arguments that we could do with much less protein than the food industry would like us to be purchasing.

Maybe once a week or fortnight I enjoy three big meals in an 8 hour window and get 90 grams of protein - but those times feel like holidays. Most days, I’m fueled on fat and living my life much less focused on… food! It’s been quite a revelation.

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(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #48

I’m guessing that, like the Inuit and other tribal societies we know of, they ate the fatty organs first and the lean meat only if they had to. Remember Stefansson’s and Andersen’s experience when they were convinced to go lean! :bacon: