Abnormal run training heart rates

(Dave) #21

As @siobhan will vouch — I have stupid amounts of salt. Averaging close to 10 grams a day (not a typo). And it took a lot of trial and error to get to understanding that’s exactly what I needed. I supplement close to one gram each of magnesium and potassium, but it’s the salt that matters the most. If I’m away from that average for too long I’ll start getting leg cramps and other issues.

(Candy Lind) #22

TEN! I need to buy stock in … what brand of salt do you use?? :rofl:

(Omar) #23

I did not read all the replies in the thread.

my blood pressure improved.
my resting pulse rate and activity pulse rate both went up by 10 to 15 pulses per minute.

my activity pulse rate used to be 80 to 85

now it is 95 to 105 pulse per minute.

my resting pulse rate which is more accurate went from 50 to 65 pulse per minute

quite an increase

(Phoebe Bishop) #24

So glad I found this! I started keto a month ago and have recently returned to running after a meniscus tear. My heart rate shot up dramatically and I couldn’t get it back down. I was about 20 pts higher on my heart rate than typical for a 5 mile run. I was freaking out a bit as I have a half marathon this weekend. I will try the salt thing and see if that helps. What about exogenous ketone supplements? Would that help mid-run at all? Thanks!

(Mellinda) #25

How are you doing now? Months later.

I have read you post and it is so recognizable. Cannot get my hart rate down, and my pace is much lower than before Keto. I’m wondering when this gets back to normal.

(Tobias Månsson) #26

Another long time keto runner adding to the pool of people experiencimg these issues. My low effort HR is at 145-150, and pacing at 160, which is high for my age. Any incline and I’m up to 170-180 bpm. At the same time I’ve lost speed, and my place is now slower. I don’t care about pace since I’m not racing, but the heart rate is bothering me.

I’ve been running on keto for almost 1,5 years now, and it’s only been getting marginally better. Seems this is the way the body works on keto…

Salt and Electrolytes help, and I always bring salted water to long runs. Pre-workout carbs also helps, but not much more than MCT-oil. So I’m sticking to the oil. :slight_smile:

#27

It doesn’t get back to normal that is the conclusion I have come to. I have tried everything and have only one solution for this. Throw away the HR monitor, run by feel and it is as though nothing has changed. One must accept that HR is higher on a Ketogenic diet, and running with a HR monitor just brings in the “worry” factor that something is wrong. Nothing is wrong. Run by feel, or as I do run with a power meter (Stryd), because a Watt always tells the truth, as opposed to HR which can lie though its teeth!

#28

See the reply I just wrote to Melb7 above.

Salted water is good for the long runs. I would kick the pre-workout carbs though, they really don’t help in my opinion. MCT-oil on the other hand helps me a lot when I take it before a run.

#29

High HR is normal with a keto diet when running, just accept it. Best to run with HR and only run by feel. MCT oil before a run helps.

(Tobias Månsson) #30

I usually run by feel as well, and my average HR is actually lower when I don’t look at the watch while running. :slight_smile:

I can run while breathing through my nose (to me that’s low effort) and that’s when my HR is around 150.

I soon figured out I need salts, but I’m still experimenting with what and when to eat. Now I’m trying supplements, and with all this the effect keeps changing. :stuck_out_tongue: Seems like this is a tricky subject!

#31

I heard a podcast with Noakes, he said exactly this. Detractors take the higher bpm as a sign of reduced efficiency - he said there’s no evidence of this. You just need more oxygen. That’s it.

I’ve experienced it as well, but when I look at training zones it really just shifted up. What used to be a race heart rate is now sustainable tempo.

jono

#32

Found the podcast:

The comments about efficiency and heart rate are at 38:25 (but the whole thing is pretty much worth the listen). It’s a cycling podcast but he’s talking generally about keto and athletic performance.

jono

(Tor Christian Stamnes) #33

I’m also an athlet. I’m training for ultraruns and do mostly low intensity workouts. >80%. I’m having as good as exactly the same HR data as @Kiwiness and experiencing the same in my runs regards of HR. I’m very glad I found this post because this issue has concerned me alot. I’m feeling great, but my resting HR and low intensity Zone has elevated by 10-15 strokes.

After listening to Timothy Noakes and as he explains that fat-burning acquires more O2 when beeing used. But doesnt this affect the areobic capasity in the end? Or does the higher amount of energi per fat-molecule/ketone weigh up for the less energic CHO? That in I mean that for (very simplyfied) every FAT-molecule to make energi to the stride you have to burn two CHO-molecules to make the same power and then you have used the same or maybe more amounts of O2?

(Candy Lind) #34

I’m hoping @daveketo, @Kiwiness or some of the others who previously posted here will pick it back up for @Tor_Christian_Stamne and maybe get some new blood, as well. There are a lot of good suggestions early on in the thread, so I encourage you to read all of it. And welcome to the forums!

(Tor Christian Stamnes) #35

Also I learned that during HIIT (which I did last evening) levels of cortisol is highly elevated especially for us on lchf/keto for the purpose of trigging glucagon and gluconeogenesis at severe rate due to rapid replenish the high use of blodglucose and glycogen stores.

As of this I’m today feeling alot more stressed out with harder and faster pounding heart than before on a higher CHO diet. So really i don’t think doing a 100% strict keto diet while exercising high intensity is that good thinking that cortisol is a hormone that activates stressful processes. Though the levels of cortisol should be lowered quite fast after exercise I don’t think it does that when on a strict keto diet and therefore it is important to carb up after exercises like HIIT.

What is your thoughts about this?
@Kiwiness @DaveKeto

(Tor Christian Stamnes) #36

Btw. I got my strips today and my Lifestyle Neo showed 3,3mmol/L blood glucose and 3,4 Bhb just before dinner today 5pm. Last meal was 11am.
That’s a GKI <1. Guess that’s not a condition you want to do HIIT I or? But I hope that’s a sign that I’m well adapted as long as I feel very good besides the raised HR

#37

Hi Tor Christian, I know I am a little bit late with my answer but now I have seen your post and can reply to you. I was injured for most of the last year unfortunately and stopped my Keto lifestyle for a few months as well, but now I am fully back into Keto and slowly building up my training again. I cannot answer your questions on cortisol or HIIT training as I have no experience with it. HIIT training is high anaerobic training so I guess I could compare it to a speed / interval session on the track. As fat is not being used as fuel for anaerobic training due to the lack of oxygen being supplied (anaerobic = without oxygen), glycogen is the main source of fuel. Bouts of up to 10 seconds or so are fueled by the Anaerobic A-Lactic (ATP-CP) energy system so it doesn’t matter if you are low carb or not, everyone is the same. After this the glycolytic system kicks in and glycogen is used to produce the ATP required. This is taken from the supply of glycogen which is stored in the muscles and liver. However us Keto people only have very little amounts of glycogen stored and not enough to fuel a decent anaerobic session. It is impossible to complete a decent anaerobic session properly, which I have painfully found out in the past. This can be countered somewhat by fueling with carbs before the session. I have worked out my own cocktail of maltodextrin, MCT oil and a few other ingredients which works well for me. So far this has not kicked me out of ketosis as only the muscles were fueled and completely used up throughout the anaerobic session. I could get some pretty good anaerobic session using this.

I do not think there is a benefit in carbing up after an anaerobic session, as this will likely kick you out of ketosis, and you do not need this fuel anymore anyway if the session is over. You only need the fuel during the session. After the session you are back to Keto living again. Only non-Keto runners need to replenish their glycogen stores after such sessions.

Concerning HR, runners on Keto have a much higher HR, this just has to be accepted. The mitochondria require more oxygen, the heart must beat faster to deliver this oxygen, that’s the bottom line. I only use HR to measure my improvement over a certain time, but I control my running by RPE and power (Stryd footpod). At first, and the main reason I began this thread, my abnormally high HR scared me, but now I know why it is high, and that it is perfectly normaI, I accept it and enjoy my running a lot more without being worried something is wrong somewhere.

(Bunny) #38

Parasympathetic nervous system is reacting to lack of potassium maybe?

Dr. Berg talks about high pulse rate. Here are the possibilities:

  1. Hyperthyroid
  2. Low potassium
  3. Medication side-effects
  4. Epinephrine
  5. Caffeine / nicotine
  6. Heart problem
  7. Adrenal stress
#39

Thank you Bunny, but I started this thread well over a year ago. I already have answers to all my questions. Now I am just answering other people’s questions.

(Edith) #40

I’ve been using MAF for training, but I’m getting frustrated with how slow I have to “run” (I use quotes because there is a fair bit of walking) to keep in my heart rate zone. Plus, there is not much improvement after many months.

So, you’re saying that if I’m fat adapted I can/should run at a higher heart rate?