Aaaaargggggh Ketone Pills

(ianrobo) #1

OK we know these exist in powders but when I see articles like this @richard @carl I want to scream, no real science and again big pharma trying to find a pill to all solutions !

(Ken) #2

These products are a good example of what happens whenever a term becomes popular. There are always those out there willing to distort things in order to sell a product.

Supplemental, dietary consumption of ketones merely provides additional, expensive calories.

Understanding the creation and role of ketones is within the wider understanding of lipolysis. Something many keto’ers don’t seem to be aware of, due to the current emphasis on the word “Keto”. It is lipolysis that creates ketosis, ketosis does not create lipolysis.

(Ethan) #3

Horrible science!

"But while the zero-carb diet appeared to benefit mice, its health effects have yet to be proven in humans. To make up the calories, the mouse diet contained 90% fat, which could be dangerous for humans to adopt.

Stephen O’Rahilly, director of the Metabolic Research Laboratories at Cambridge University, said high-fat diets drive up LDL or “bad” cholesterol in humans, and so raise the risk of heart disease. “Mice don’t really use LDL cholesterol in the first place, so it doesn’t have that bad impact on them,” he said."

(ianrobo) #4

plus Mice do not eat the same dietary fat as us, mice studies are a complete and utter waste of time, even if they agree with our viewpoint

(Linda Culbreth) #5
  1. Humans are not the same as mice.
  2. Mice are not the same as humans.
  3. There was mention of scientific studies without actual reference to same, SHOW ME THE SCIENCE!!!
  4. Actually, a low carb diet (less than 20 or so grams per day) is also ketogentic, not just zero carbs.
  5. A keto diet is actually a very simple way to eat - you might have to plan ahead, but one into it, you can always fast instead of choosing the wrong stuff.
#6

I remember hearing a whole interview about the multiple benefits of fasting, and the wrap-up was “Scientists are now working on a drug that can mimic the effects of fasting so that more people can experience these wonderful results.”

:expressionless:

#7

So take a pill and eat fried donuts? Pharma are nuts!

(Brian) #9

It’s been quite a while ago, but I remember the Dr. Oz show that was all about how we could take these wonderful raspberry ketones pills and the weight would drop right off. I was a sucker on that one. Bought a few bottles and took faithfully… and noticed no results whatsoever.

Why would someone need a drug to mimic a zero carb diet when they can just quit eating carbs? I think I know the answer… people want to eat whatever they want, take a little pill and magically be healthy because the pill blocked all the bad stuff.

(Ethan) #10

Bet you lost weight in the wallet!

(Brian) #11

Yup. I was stupid enough to try it. Should have known better but did it anyway.

And then I realized that every day, Dr. Oz had yet another “sure-fire way to lose weight and get healthy” with yet another product to buy.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Haven’t really paid much attention to Dr. Oz since, no more so than the talking heads on the news… (have I mentioned that I rarely even turn on the news? LOL!)

#12

I put him in the same category as Doctor Phil. Charlatans!

#13

Um ok so I guess I will be the one to say. Taking this pill does not cause weight loss nor are they implying that. Taking the pill will hopefully let humans experience various health benefits of ketogenic diet. This is no different than someone taking fish oil pills to get health benefits as well.

If this pill was to magically get your body into REAL ketosis (not fake ala drinking ketones) and somehow put you in a caloric deficit/speed up metabolism, then I could see why people would be considered lazy to take it. This is not that.

No one is trying to fool anyone here and the naysayers will be the first ones to sign up… I mean why would you not want to increase health markers, life span etc?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

There’s a difference between increasing health markers and improving health. If your foundation is shifting, your dining room wall might crack and the wallpaper might tear. You can make the dining room look better by papering over the crack (i.e., improving the health marker), but that does nothing to ameliorate the true problem, which is structural. In other words the building is still unhealthy until you fix the foundation problem.

#15

Which is what every person taking vitamins, fish oil, etc understands.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

The difference is that fish oil has an effect, in that the omega-6 and omega-3 oils it contains actually do things to the body, and the body needs to take them in because it can’t manufacture them itself. Exogenous ketones are just more fuel, which the body is perfectly capable of making in the necessary quantity. Unless I misunderstand the point of your earlier post, this is the answer to the question you posed.

(Richard Morris) #17

Maybe if they make a pill that replicates ketogenic diets then there will some money thrown into researching the effect of the diet on all the other facets of human existence that we don’t know about. Personally I hope people make money from ketosis and plough money back into science.

But right now the only people making money are people selling lefthanded ketones.

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #18

What was it you said once about your liver making ~$300k of ketones annually…and essentially for free!

(Brian ) #19

The main application of the ketogenic drugs would be for acute head trauma, Parkinsons, Alzheimers, etc. There is a lot of research going on with Navy Seals who do better when in ketosis with regard to PTSD, stress response, and seizures with deep dives. Some of them refuse to give up carbs so this drug may help to protect them for short term missions even if they don’t change their diet. It may also help with concussions/head trauma recovery. There is a valid place but unfortunately people will try to use them to cheat the system and lose a few pounds quicker. Let’s save our money and do it with a ketogenic diet and intermittent fasting!

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

I’m probably missing something here, but if ketone bodies are the result of lipolysis, and glucose in the bloodstream is the signal for the pancreas to secrete insulin, and insulin promotes the metabolism of glucose and suppresses the metabolism of ketones, then how do exogenous ketones provide any benefit, unless one is already fat-adapted? (This all seems so much simpler in the lectures I’ve been watching and the books I’ve been reading.)

(Richard Morris) #21
  1. They don’t
  2. Maybe appetite suppressing but I suspect that is a function of energy availabilty not some magic ketone feature
  3. possibly some mental acuity benefits
  4. I really suspect they don’t

Dr Bikeman in Breckenridge suggested that ketones with glucose may be a very bad thing.