A veterinarian's take- our pets go through the same thing

(Mother of Puppies ) #21

I used the recommendations from this site last week, and my dog started pooping blood!!!

Very startling.

I had only given her chicken, cheese and added chia seeds (Just eyeballed, no measuring) so be careful!!

#22

A Drahthaar!! Now there’s a rare breed! Ha ha! I honestly probably wouldn’t even know the breed if it weren’t for the fact that one of my exams in school included a case involving a Drahthaar. We all sort of looked at each other like, what the heck is that? LOL

That’s interesting what you say about pancreatitis, and I don’t doubt it. There are plenty of cases of pancreatitis (I’d say probably 80-90% of the cases I’ve seen in dogs, and 100% of the cases I’ve seen in cats, but “cats aren’t small dogs” as they say) where there is no recent history of a very high fat meal. Very interesting, thank you. And I’m really so encouraged to hear all the success stories you guys are posting.

To Candice- That happened with my dog when I switched brands and fed her Primal (a raw frozen food which I still recommend often). Lots of runny blood, the ground looked like someone had been murdered there. She just doesn’t tolerate it, even though many other dogs do really well on it. Every dog is different, and sometimes (just as in people) you don’t know their sensitivities until they try it. This is also why a gradual switch is helpful, as well as a vet who will advise you. I think your effort to improve your dog’s diet is very commendable, again just be sure the food isn’t missing essential minerals.

#23

I have to admit I have zero experience with keto diets in cats and dogs. So please take what I say with a grain of salt, but I’d be happy to share my thinking, I may or may not be right. I think biologically appropriate is the key here. And we know cats are obligate carnivores and they don’t go around eating a whole lot of anything else. Dogs and their ancestors are known to scavenge and have a slightly more varied diet. In general, cat food is supposed to have a higher protein content than what you find for either humans or for dogs.

When it comes to fat, I’m not sure anyone knows for sure, but I look at the theories behind the ketogenic diet and why our natural fat intake, and our bodies’ ability to use ketones, is far higher than other omnivorous animals. What I keep hearing is that it was necessary to get our brains to evolve to be much larger. Cats and dogs didn’t develop these enormous brains, though. A previous poster, Todd, mentioned his dog gets a little less fat and little more protein (about 35% I think he said) than he feeds himself, and this seems more natural to me. Again, a cat doesn’t go around eating high fat avocados or coconuts or whatever, they get the fat that is on the animal they eat. And they’re not eating seals, they’re eating rodents and birds. So, I don’t have the answer, but I think it may be that although cats and dogs shouldn’t get grains and a lot of starches, it would make sense if their protein-to-fat ratio is higher than ours. Even high enough to not be technically ketogenic.

As for finicky cats :smile: …
Dry food is like crack for a lot of cats. It can be a hard thing to switch them but don’t despair. I think it’s absolutely worth trying to switch to a wet food, and I’m happy to say that on the forum because I’ve never met a cat I wouldn’t make that recommendation for. Switching over from dry food to entirely wet food will often help shed weight without any other measures. Unfortunately I don’t have personal experience having to do this for my own cats. That site I mentioned (catinfo.org) has a section on converting dry food addicts to wet food, and it’s probably more helpful info than I would have to offer. Sorry I don’t have more!

(Todd Allen) #24

If it was a lot of blood, especially if dark in color, I hope you consulted your vet. A small amount of bright red blood though probably is something minor such as hemorrhoids or maybe a constipation related anal fissure. If the second my guess is either the cheese or chia. I’d be really surprised if chicken caused trouble unless it wasn’t deboned or something was seriously wrong with it. A gradual transition of diet changing things slowly and introducing new foods one at a time is a good way to catch problematic foods, both for ourselves and our pets.

(Mother of Puppies ) #25

It was bright red blood. I called vet, she said try a bland diet. It cleared quickly.

I think it was the Chia. I have been giving her a self-styled keto ever since I started it for myself. I noticed how pet cancers and diabetes have tracked our own. And processed food manufacturers are to be avoided among them as well as us.

(Carole) #26

Thank you so much. I really didn’t mean keto. I meant high protein wet food. Was just joshing because we’re on a keto site. I’m going to give it a try and thanks for getting back to me. Will check out the site also.:grinning:
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

(matt ) #27

We started buying chicken quarters and tossing them in the instant pot. That’s the dogs food now. Pretty sure it’s cheaper than kibble as we were already buying the grain free stuff

(Cathy) #28

I hope you are deboning the chicken quarters. It is very risky to give a dog cooked chicken bones. Raw is fine but not cooked as they tend to splinter and can cause problems.

(Todd Allen) #29

I should add that we (and our dog) eat most of the animal products in our diet cooked, not raw, but it is mostly low temperature and/or moist cooking, a lot of sous vide and slow cooker soups, stews and roasts. Lightly poached eggs from our flock of free ranging hens are a favorite. We buy local pastured meat in bulk and get less expensive choices like untrimmed whole brisket and offal and might be spending less now than when we were buying dog food.

(matt ) #30

Deboned with 2 checks.

#31

That’s so wonderful!!! Great to have this information spreading and being adopted.

The biotech version of biology is what seems to inform a very very expensive industrial model of veterinary science these days - and without access to the working poor among us (around half the population!) with credit scores that fail payment plans. It’s so frustrating to me that local or federal funding doesn’t ensure that all city animals are able to receive quality emergency care. There’s also a lot of dubious association between corporatized pet clinics and the large pet food companies and pharmaceuticals companies. Independent vets and non-corporatized clinics have to function with a different business model that is challenging in its own ways I imagine.

I’ve done TNR for almost 10 neighborhood strays & ferals - there’s a clinic that has grant funding to do spay/neuters and basic healthcare for ferals & strays, so it’s free for any & all humans to bring them in for non-emergency care. And there seems to be an endless stream of these needy animals - though I guess as the years of TNR proceed in my city (it’s pretty recent) it’ll reduce.

I was surprised to learn that the huge county animal control department does not have some version of TNR units with protocols and routines - it’s completely dependent on the public’s degree of education, focus, transportation, schedule flexibility to arrange for clinic dropoffs and pickups, etc etc. Many households are just too overwhelmed to address the needs of feral/stray cat colonies - as just getting human needs covered is a lot.

There’s one particular stray who showed up around 6 mos old who I took for care way back - he’s very social and has become much loved by many on the block, he’s uncannily smart/emotionally attuned (we call him the saint or the shaman cat), a long legged, lean & agile tabby supermodel - and he visits different households throughout the week and receives table scraps and probably lots of the heinous Meow Mix. :crying_cat_face: So, in order to help my neighbors possibly learn about and buy the healthiest grain-free human-grade meat brand available at the chain pet food store for this feline prince, I bought several bags of it and handed it out to neighbors who all love him - advising they presoak the kibble in some water before feeding (for a bit more hydration). Next step is to pass out other menu items, maybe cans of sardines. And who knows, eventually, maybe weekly raw chopped liver!

Last year, before all the neighborhood networking, this dear feline fellow was shot by a pellet gun in the early evening and came into my place through the cat door looking for help. As my preferred holistic vet hospital doesn’t do emergency hours - I went to the big state-of-the-art emergency pet hospital nearest me. And, the minimal fee for testing and basic protocols to confirm the situation and see if surgery was necessary turned out to be $1200, which was reduced to around $800 - mind you, with no surgery needed (incredibly so many city animals can cope with pellets in their muscle armor when not directly harmed, as many are - due to the huge numbers of roving disturbed youths with BB/pellet guns). It was beyond stressful for my household budget nonetheless, as my low credit score (thanks 2008) didn’t qualify for the animal care credit line clinics offer but a friend helped, and I eventually paid it off. I think emergency pet care facilities should be gov funded with special public day & night clinics - to a significant degree.

Animal ethics related to emergency & preventative healthcare seems to be something that people from all dietary backgrounds and cultures should be able to agree on - one would think! The way a culture treats its animals and its women & children are very connected.

#32

You’re amazing. Truly. My heart is in the same place as yours, and I don’t disagree with anything you said. I do regular fostering and have friends who do TNR. Since you (and others on this thread) are frequent consumers of veterinary care, I figure it might help in your care of your pets to explain my view from the inside of this business. I hope this doesn’t come across as defensive, I know you weren’t saying anything negative about vets. I just want to show you behind the curtain a little, maybe you’ll be the one to come up with a solution for your community. (Sorry for the length of this.)

First, about the veterinarians. It’s honestly very rare for vets to act against what they know to be right for any additional financial gain. I’m telling you this because I hope it helps gives you confidence in the intentions (if not in the recommendations) of the vets you see that give conventional advice on food. I have disagreements with other vets all the time, but I have actually never doubted their intentions to take the best care of their patients. You’re right that the biotech and food industry have a huge influence, but it’s not overt, it’s insidious and starts with the aforementioned free pizza in vet school. The problem, I think, is that many of us aren’t adequately suspicious of what we’re taught, because it sounds so right. And our intense aversion to risk to our patients (same as MDs) sometimes clouds our judgement of the evidence against a conventional approach.

As for costs in healthcare, if you’re singing this song then I’m the choir, sister. The issues you are talking about are actually very similar to those in human healthcare, and we have yet to even get a consensus on how to deal with that. The advances in veterinary care over the last twenty years have been amazing. We get closer to the standard of human medicine all the time. But you know how expensive human medical care is, especially if you’ve seen the prices on your medical bills pre-insurance-discounts. At the vet, though, this is all out-of-pocket. The high-end veterinary clinics are equipped with many of the exact same supplies and medical equipment as at a human hospital, at the same cost to the practice. Take it from me, this stuff is really, really expensive. Having a staff that knows how to handle literally anything that walks in the door is really expensive. Those expenses are regained by the overall practice income, on everything from routine office annual visits to an emergency when your dog is in cardiac arrest.

A lot of people are willing to pay extra to be at a practice that is fully-equipped in this way, but your point is valid. What about when you need good affordable and basic care. Depending on where people live there may be options. Here there is a large private animal shelter that will see emergency cases for privately-owned pets in their hospital. There are other hospitals, including our own and also the big ER clinic, which have discount programs for several rescue organizations and all their foster parents. (Actually, at our place all the doctors also do volunteer work on the side.) I have yet to see one of these high-end practices that doesn’t do a lot of free or discounted work for rescues and shelters, but they all have a system so they aren’t deciding on a case-by-case basis. In a city like this, any practice has to make the choice between being set up to give the state-of-the-art care that so many people expect now (at a higher price) or giving a lower standard of care across the board (at a lower cost). The best thing is when a community has options for both. Even in human hospitals, here in my city, if you don’t have insurance you can’t go to the trauma center at the swanky university teaching hospital. If you do, they’ll stabilize you and send you to the county hospital ASAP. It’s the same healthcare issues, whether it be an animal or a person. And I agree, we are failing both. A government-funded emergency vet clinic would be amazing. (Just an interesting note, Dove Lewis in Portland is a non-profit 24-hour emergency and specialty center, but I’ve heard from friends in the area that their prices aren’t cheap either. The cost of equipment and staffing is likely high everywhere.)

If you were in my city, with all the amazing work that you’re doing, I would try to get you hooked up with a rescue organization that has a discount already set up. You’ve probably already considered that, but in case you haven’t you may want to look into it. You could also have a sit-down with the hospital director at the hospital where you went, and ask their advice, maybe even set something up for people in your area who do rescue. These people usually really do want to help. (Unless it’s a corporate practice, then all bets are off, they may or may not have the authority to work out discounts locally for rescues but you could try.) I can say though, no veterinarian feels any joy in turning away an animal in need, it’ll be a good thing for them too if the hospital will work with you on something.

#33

I had 3 different dog breeds (teddy roosevelt rat terrier, pug and a chihuahua) who grew up together. Back then, I thought I was buying the finest kibble. I monitored their weights carefully and avoided the dreaded “people” food. I was so invested in trying to give them the best life. Well, they all ended up with problems. My terrier had breathing and skin problems and had allergies, including increasing allergies to her kibble that I would keep having to change out. The chihuahua battled bouts of cancer and would have bouts of upset stomach. The poor puggy got the worst of it. He ended up with SIBO, irritable bowel disease which was very hard to deal with on a daily basis. (Explosive puggy BMs in the wee hours of the night) Still we gave him the best care we could but he had to go on prednisone which led to diabetes and blindness.

I know living beings are bound to have illnesses, but 3 different breeds with so many frequent problems just didn’t feel like a coincidence. At the end of their lives, I made a switch to Honest Kitchen foods and incorporated more real foods. I was babystepping into the raw thing. Now they have all passed, I have two new young dogs who have been raised on raw food, lots of good fats and real vegs. I also give them lots of prebiotics to strengthen their guts. I won’t really know if that will make a difference for them until they become older, but I felt I really had nothing to lose compared to my last experiences. What I can say is their poo is amazing. I live in a rainy state and the cleaning up the backyard was a way more gross experience than the yard clean up with these pups today. It feels like a much better direction. I spend quite a bit more money on their food today, but I also paid A LOT of money at the end of life for my other dogs on medical bills. Meds were at least $200/month for the two dogs alone, not including the frequent vet visits. Also giving two dogs pills mutliple times a day and giving one insulin shots twice a day with work and raising kids was hectic. And what I wanted to avoid most that was the promise of kibble, was pain&suffering and their lives cut short.

I loved those dogs and bought heavily into the kibble sales line. Looking back, I also realized that a lifetime of eating a mono food with questionable meat sources (chicken feathers? who knows?) was maybe not how nature intended.

One thing I realize is I find a lot of joy in preparing their food. I do also buy prepared ready to eat versions when I’m on a time budget. I learned to make dog jerky from ground beef using a dehydrator and a jerky gun. They definitely love their jerky and I have fun making it.

This may not be for everyone, but that’s the story of how I got to where I am today on how I feed my dogs. After my last experiences, I had nothing to lose by experimenting with this process.

Thanks, Callisto, for your great post.

(Ken) #34

I’ve got an appointment with my local beef processor today. They’re slaughtering three steers. I’ll be getting a couple of gallons of blood in order to train my Drahthaar to blood track, and hope to come away with a couple of buckets of organs as well.

#35

Over 20 years ago, i got a Welsh farmcat.
At 3 months old, he already had splitting claws and staring rusty coat (his mother had been fed on cheap kibble, and the family was probably inbred for several generations).
He had 6 toes on each foot, was knock kneed, pot bellied throughout his life, and was exceptionally dimwitted.
:grin:
He was deeply loved.

I fed him excellent, high quality kibble, for his first decade, and he dined out on tinned junk food at the neighbours (those toxic waste pouches).

Then he developed Dementia and I moved home to a house with a walled garden, so he became a prisoner in the garden - and a captive audience with the food.

We went Raw.
Within 6 weeks his eyes as clear and bright as a kitten. His Dementia halted in its tracks, and his black fur developed a mirror like shine.
He eventually died at 19 years of a massive stroke.

Not bad considering his start in life!

Our other cat refused to eat the Raw at all, and stole from neighbours, because he was fit enough to climb over the wall. We ended up feeding him tinned to prevent him from moving out to live with his favoured food source.
He died at 10 yrs old of a massive siezure. No warning.

We now have two dogs. Raw fed from pups. Muscle, organ meat, veg, fish oil, probiotics. No grains, minimal carbs in the form of raw fresh veg. Also raw meaty bones. Their health is… intimidating. They are 5 and 3 yrs old, and have the Bounce of pups. Clean strong teeth. Bright eyes, shining fur. Alert. Engaged. One of them outwits me regularly :wink:

And did I mention the farts?

There aren’t any.
Unless they have been visiting the groomer and fed her liver treats. :hushed:

I will never feed anyone (animal or human) any processed muck ever again.

#36

Thank you yes this was the first site I saw. I like the idea and love their work but am reluctant to do raw while she is on cyclo sporin.

@Callisto Thank you and you are absolutely correct that I worry about her immune compromised state. I wonder if I should check her blood glucose since the prednisone may be doing some damage. However, perhaps the meat diet is mitigating in some way. Thank you for mentioning the calcium issue I will pay more attention. What does happen when someone has to be on prednisone but is eating low carb? Do you still get the out of control blood sugar

As for pinpointing, I think it is a hit or miss since I will not do a brain biopsy and the spinal tap showed nothing. I keep wondering if it was a passing infection but I doubt it since I saw the MRI and there was a large white area in her brain. Also, although she is ok, every once in awhile I see some minor paw slippage on tile (sort of the way an oversized puppy who does not control his feet well but she is fully grown). This is a sign of the problems continuing but this may stay even if it is autoimmune and she goes into full remission since this may have been caused by the disease. If it is the worst of it I am fine with that. She really does look ok. Anyone meeting her would think she was about 8 (4 months ago they would have thought a full grown puppy) and quite healthy. Originally she was supposed to be on the medications for at least a year but the vet was pleased with her progress but you never know. I do wonder if the diet is helping and how important it is for her to stick to it she steals food at least twice a week and the only food that are out are breads and so on that other family members eat

Sojos Grain-Free unfortunately has cranberries and sweet potatoes so I am reluctant. I give her the medicine in either cream cheese or peanut butter and we eat a lot of cheese and I usually share so she is getting some calcium anyway. I also give her greek yogurt mixed with psyllium whenever her stomach is upset.

Interesting about the cats becoming hypoallergenic any idea if it works for dogs? I am asking because we have another dog that lives with us because he caused an allergic reaction in his real family, a boston rat terrier. He has been on the same diet as my poodle and at almost 13 is much more active than previously. He has lost a little weight too. He was becoming blind in one eye and that has not cleared up and has gotten worse but I guess not everything can be fixed (the vets disagree as to the cause and diet is not one of them). It looks like there is a major cataract but the vets do not believe that is what it really is. They attribute it mainly to old age but if you saw him, other than the eye he looks younger than my 4 year old poodle (after diagnosis). We would love to be able to return him to his original family who are my good friends.

I laugh when I hear about cats not wanting wet food. We mostly fed our cats Hills in a bag because we used to have neighbor who was a vet and he claimed that was the only diet he had never seen a cat block on. We never did have any urinary problems (other than not using their litter box because H did not clean it enough when I was pregnant). As a special treat we would give them regular canned food and they would come running. We also felt a little guilty whenever we did it because we thought it was so much worse than the Hills at the time. They could hear the can opening no matter where they were. They died a decade ago but lived to be 16 and 17

(Ken) #37

The health implications of nutrition on out dogs and cats are pretty massive. Since I really enjoy this topic, I’ll wax a bit and go over some of the factors I dug up some 15 years ago when I decided to change my dog’s nutrition. At that time I had switched a few years eariler, had experienced massive fat loss, and had just lost a beloved Springer Spaniel to the effects of diabetes. I have to admit I still partially blame myself for his early demise, as I had all the knowledge to save him, but did not make the change. If I had only fed him the same way I fed myself.

The Pet Food industry was granted an exemption as far as ingredient labeling. They are not required to list the ingredients used in rendering meat and bone products into the meal used as the protein sources of pet food. In addition, many of the preservatives used in pet foods are not certified for Human Consumption.

The same meal from the same sources are used in canned food. It’s merely wet.

The incomplete vegetable proteins are also included in the total protein percentages. Sources like Corn Gluten.

It’s highly arguable that unnatural food is implicated in Hip Displasia. As with humans and their inflammation issues, some dogs are genetically more susceptible than others. I suspect rates are considerably lower in dogs who are fed naturally.

IMO, diet is also a factor in determining average life span. An example being Great Danes. I suspect their lives could be extended by feeding a natural diet. I’ve had dogs live over 18 years, and one estimate I read said 20+ could be possible feeding naturally.

As mentioned before, pancreatitus is prevalent in dogs the are fed a carbohydrate diet, rather that a fat based one. In such dogs, attacks often come on when a dog consumes a large amount of fat in addition to their regular dog food.

Just a few that come to mind. I’ve always referred to feeding naturally as “Doggie Paleo”, most people are at least aware of the Paleo concept.

#38

Two more things. First, is coconut based MCT oil safe for dogs?

Second, in October the poodle got into our Macadamia nuts and ate close to a bag. She was tottering around drunk for a morning and by the time we got her to the vet she looked almost normal. We are on the east coast of the US so our vet had no experience with Macadamia nut poisoning. I had already given her activated charcoal and it seemed to be helping. It was too late to induce vomiting. She was fine by the end of the day and was normal by Monday (happened Saturday morning). Is it even remotely possible that her seizures 4 months later had anything to do with this incident? The vets did not think so but I thought I would throw it out there in case anyone had a similar story

#39

@Peripheree and @Brunneria Your stories are awesome! See, I hear stuff like this ALL the time! And my colleagues wonder why I can’t get with the program. :-):grinning:

@Saphire I have to admit I’d have to go back to my vet school notes to figure out exactly how prednisone can lead to diabetes in dogs. We know it does in some cases, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a slow creep upwards of the blood glucose to warn that it’s coming. (Though I should mention that I’ve fortunately never had a dog on prednisone go diabetic, I’ve seen a few dogs like this after becoming diabetic. I don’t like it for long-term use unless there are literally no other options. Sounds like your neurologist is using cyclosporine to minimize the prednisone dose and that’s really good.) Then once they are diabetic taking them off the prednisone won’t reverse it, either. I have not had the opportunity to try a massive diet change on an already-diabetic animal that had been on prednisone, though. Autoimmune diseases tend to progress fairly quickly in most parts of the body though I don’t know if there are exceptions when it comes to the central nervous system. As you say, if it doesn’t appear to be progressing, then I guess it could be the immune suppressive medications or it could be that it’s not an autoimmune condition.

I didn’t realize about the Sojos!! I swear back in the day it didn’t have those ingredients in it, or maybe I didn’t notice because I wasn’t as sensitive to the presence of carbohydrates. Regardless, I’m so sorry, and I’m glad you noticed. You might want want to consider the Honest Kitchen grain-free base mix (called Kindly), which also contains some starch/sugar but doesn’t look like as much as the Sojos. I also just found this article which discusses using a pre-mix vs. making from scratch. It’s thoughtful and well-written.
https://keepthetailwagging.com/why-i-no-longer-add-a-base-mix-to-raw-dog-food/

It’s my risk-aversion that pushes me to recommend pre-mixes, but it’s quite possible to do this without one.

I don’t have personal (or client) experience with the allergy thing in dogs, but I would totally try it!! If you do, please let me know what you find!

About coconut based MCT oil, I have no reason to believe it’s harmful at this time. I even have some patients on it, as well as straight coconut oil, and they all do fine with it. If you wanted to be sure, you could check with the animal poison control folks. They have toxicologists and also a running database of toxicology cases. So if it’s a relatively new thing (like packaged MCT oils are) they would be the first know if there are any problems.

I’ve never seen a case of macadamia nut poisoning, they are exceedingly rare in my area also. There’s no way to know for sure (we actually don’t even know why the nuts cause toxicity in dogs) but I’d agree with your vet, I think it’s pretty unlikely that it would cause seizures that long after the ingestion. No way to say for sure.

Not for you specifically, but I feel like this might be a good place to tell anyone reading this and doesn’t know, xylitol is highly poisonous to dogs. So if using a xylitol-based sweetener or xylitol-containing sweets (as we sometimes do on keto), please do put them somewhere safe from your dog.

@240lbfatloss You are so totally right about pet food labelling, it’s pretty gross. But you shouldn’t blame yourself for any part of it. I’d be okay with doctors and veterinarians dispensing advice about nutrition IF they would also admit to the limits of their knowledge about it. It’s the positioning of these professions as experts, when the education on the topic is ridiculously minimal, that bothers me. I like “doggy paleo”!! It’s a great way to describe it, I’ll remember that.

#40

We became the proud co-habitees with two moggy kittens now adult cats a year and a half ago, and as keto/LCHF eaters in our home, so once we thought about the obligate carnivore thing, it was natural to feed them raw meat straight away, also sardines and tuna from time to time, and when they were younger they loved very fresh raw chicken nibbles (and ate the lot).

Unlike with cats I have lived with in the past, no milk or dairy as treats, just fresh water. And my partner and I realised we were a bit OTT in spoiling them as we started out just giving them bottled water. (We have stopped that, as the tap water where we live is pretty good, and not smelling of chlorine as it can do in urban centres.) We worried about taurine and some other minerals which are naturally deficient in our soil (selenium and zinc), and about their teeth, so get high quality grain-free cat kibble to supplement the raw meat.

They turned out, as moggies, to be excellent hunters. Too excellent in fact, so we use ‘anti predation collars’ on them to help save the native birds and lizards from them (it cuts down the carnage by about 80-90% - I recommend them.) We are very pleased when they catch mice out of our garage and surrounds. (Because of the mice - no need for the fresh chicken nibbles! Lots of innards and crunchy bones.) (Argh!)

We delight in their glossy coats, excellent lean muscle tone, and shining eyes. I always wondered why cats I had in the past didn’t have glossy coats, they way they ought, now I know.

As I say, I didn’t know about good nutrition for people, so how could I know about the proper way to feed cats? I feel sorry for my canned food eating cats in the past (as I do me, and my children! For what we ate in the past) but am really relieved I know better now for these animals I live with. Ditto myself and human type animals.