A little Science if you will


(Kelly Silverman) #1

Hey yall, I can always trust you guys when I had all my keto questions. The participants in this forum are thoroughly informed and I trust you guys.

I understand that this is a ketogenic fourm; However I decided to try carnivore for a month and was hoping someone could help me with a little science (If any of you have partaken in this lifestyle).

Question: If too much protein spikes insulin, how is that an all meat diet will keep your insulin levels low enough to run your body on fat, thus producing energy and fatloss? :thinking:

Question #2 : Although Keto and Carnivore are different in eating lifestyles, does your body actually achieve ketosis since you have no carbs at all? Or can it, being that your protein intake is so high? :thinking:

I have never heard Dr. Ken Berry actually answer these questions in his videos, but I figured this community would know. All input is appreciated! :grin:


(bulkbiker) #2

Big “If” and the “too much” part as well…

I’ve been in ketosis whenever I’ve measured ketones whilst eating a meat heavy diet so for me yes. About 2 years mainly meat.


(Bunny) #3

Just posted this:


(Troy) #4

I just watched this last night
Goes in to somewhat of your questions
Fat loss

It’s the Protein vs/and Fat Ratio intake
Amber vs Ted …lovingly though

Mentioned here on other posts

Enjoy :smile:


(Bob M) #5

OMG. Can you cite to ANY evidence AT ALL for this statement?


(Kelly Silverman) #6

Thank you, I saw Kelly Hogan on a video with Dr Berry. I’m checking this video out now.


(Troy) #7

:smile:
Yup…I watched that video as well

The one above, you will enjoy


(Give me bacon, or give me death.) #8

The pancreas secretes two hormones, glucagon and insulin, that regulate whether the metabolism is oriented to metabolise fatty acids or glucose. The key is the ratio of insulin to glucagon. When it is low, such as when we eat very little carbohydrate, glucagon stimulates the liver to produce the small quantity of glucose that the body actually needs (gluconeogenesis) and to produce ketone bodies (ketogenesis). The amount of protein we eat in these circumstances does not affect the insulin/glucagon ratio, and it stays low, so we remain in ketosis.

When the insulin/glucagon ratio is high, insulin shuts off gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis, and forces the cells of the body to either metabolise or store glucose (in the form of fat, in the case of our fat cells). Protein eaten to excess under these circumstances will cause the insulin/glucagon ratio to rise even further.

The key variable is carbohydrate intake. Keep it low enough, or eliminate it entirely, and the liver is busy making ketones for cells to burn (the muscles prefer fatty acids, but a lot of cells do very nicely on ketones, especially the heart and brain). Raise carb intake above a certain threshold, and the the resulting insulin response shuts off ketogenesis, and we are back to metabolising and storing glucose.


#9

But it doesn’t, GNG is WAY over hyped! All the people eating Carnivore are great proof of this. On my phone now so it’s hard to dig stuff up but if you search the forum for GNG related stuff there’s a ton of articles and videos explaining why you don’t need to fear protein… like at all! Ben Bikman has some good videos on this, as do many others from the high protein side of things.


#10

image


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

@andy71 Please link the source of your diagram. Thanks. The claims that 50% of ingested protein ‘converts’ to glucose within 4 hours and 10% of fat ‘converts’ to glucose in 10 hours are wrong. The only way either protein or fat gets ‘converted’ to glucose is via gluconeogenesis, which is controlled by the glucagon/insulin ratio, not how much or little protein/fat are ingested.


#12

@amwassil
https://www.google.com/search?q=food+conversion+to+glucose&hl=en-GB&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjmhrWg-ffqAhWEW80KHUNrDAQQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&cshid=1596214240431552&biw=1536&bih=690


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

https://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=438

Thanks, but I doubt the Diabetes Support Forum UK is the source of the chart. And it’s still wrong about both protein and fat.


#14

Protein yes but I don’t know about Triglycerides since I don’t measure anything. I’m good as long as my stomach is flat as a board.

Triglycerides contain glycerol… does glycerol from triglycerides raise blood glucose?

10% is nothing and probably beneficial to have a raise in some glucose?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

Anyone eating some variation of SAD, ie hundreds of grams of carbs per day, is already overloaded with glucose to the point of stuffing it into adipose cells for storage. The liver is not going to waste time and energy on gluconeogenesis (nor is elevated insulin going to allow it) to synthesize even more unnecessary glucose from ingested protein and/or fat.

For a person in ketosis the glucagon/insulin ratio determines whether or not and how much protein and/or fat gets synthesized into glucose. Any resultant rise in glucose/insulin automatically shuts down gluconeogenesis. Is there wiggle room? Sure, but it wiggles to zero well below 50% of protein and 10% of fat ingested.

Example: I eat 240 grams of fat per day and 120 grams of protein. Does that result in 24 grams of glucose from the fat and 60 grams of glucose from the protein? No, it does not. If it did I’d be either a diabetic mess or severely obese and prediabetic. I’m neither.


(Kelly Silverman) #16

Thank you Paul! I appreciate you always, because you be really coming with the information!!

I keep getting the notion that too much insulin is going to spike insulin (I got that from Eric Berg).


(Kelly Silverman) #17

Honestly, I got that theory from Dr. Eric Berg. I’m coming from Keto (taught by him) and transitioning to carnivore for a month. He always says too much protein is going to spike insulin. Dr. Berg is strictly keto, so I dont even think he has any carnivore videos.

So I am glad I came here to get some real answers.


(Kelly Silverman) #18

Thank you! I will definitely search the forum for GNG.


(bulkbiker) #19

Dr Berg is also a bit of a marmite figure (love or hate and not much in between).


#20

Please link where you got that chart, 50% of protein converting to sugar? Don’t think so! Pretty sure I’d notice if half the 300g+ I eat in protein daily was going to sugar on me!