A lil' reassurance please :D

#1

Hello! So glad i’ve found this forum!!

Sorry in advance for the length!!! :see_no_evil:

Me and my sister have been following a Keto diet for 2 weeks now. I got us some of the sticks to pee on to see what was going on and they’re still showing negative every single day…

Bit of background info on us - my sis is a PT and I’m the one that does all the cooking and menu planning. We both train 5 days a week too. I’m meticulous about weighing all the food and I’ve spent hours making sure the recipes we have been following hit our macros for the day - we both have the same stats so it’s been quite easy in that regard.

I have been using keto websites for the recipes and we used a calculator to determine our macros.

We both drink between 3-4 litres of water a day and I’ve been vary careful to pick recipes that have a wide range of ingredients (not just cheese and beef!) and we have bought organic and grass fed meats and dairy products.

My question I guess is how reliable are these pee sticks?! It’s been 2 weeks now and we have been eating 20g or under carbs, 103 fat and between 70-80 protein (that’s the only one I’ve been struggling with, if we go over by a few grams it’s on the protein!)

We both had symptoms of the ‘Keto flu’ for a few days last week but have been feeling good since then… I’ve lost 2% bf but no weight reduction on the scales - could we not have seen the results that others have initially because we don’t have huge amount of weight to lose?

I don’t understand why the sticks are showing negative after 2 weeks when we have followed the macros and calories the calc gave us… are the sticks just super unreliable or are we going really wrong somewhere? It’s a little discouraging to see those stick show negative everyday.

Thank you so much!

(Jay AM) #2

Please provide some more background with your height, weight, age?

Urine test strips are not reliable beyond telling you if you waste ketones. Since you are physically active and it looks like also restricting calories (unless you are extremely small like under 5 feet tall), your body isn’t getting the chance to waste ketones and may not even be making enough at this stage. So, you wouldn’t be wasting any and seeing the strips change color.

Go ahead and post the rest of your stats and maybe some food log info for us and we can look into customizing some recommendations for you to make sure everything is in place to succeed.

#3

Hi,

i’m 5.3 - 138lbs. I eat around 1400-1800 cals a day depending on how much of a work out I do. So we have been sticking to under 20g carbs, 103 fat and 70-80 protein which is an average from what 3 keto calculators gave.

We have been using recipes from ruled.me - i’ve been recreating/logging them with the ingredients we have been buying in MyFitnessPal - some of our ingredients must differ in the UK from the US as some of the recipes have worked out at different macros - so i’ve been logging what we have been eating rather than what has been posted on the website to make sure our macros are accurate.

Brekkies have been things like omelettes with cheese/mushroom/ham/chicken or peanut butter pancakes - lunches have been things like portobello ‘pizzas’ or pesto chicken with courgette noodles - or a chicken salad with avo, baby spinach, walnuts, olive oil drizzle, dinners have been steak, charred veg and goat cheese, tikka… cooking with butter, cream, oils etc…

(Rob) #4

Hello @rosie1980 and welcome to the forum!

Sorry in advance for the length!!!

I quit apologizing for that a good while back. :slight_smile:

I can’t speak directly to the urine strips … I haven’t used them. You’ve already gotten some input and doubtlessly will get other opinions on that. Some say you don’t need to measure at all, I’m in the camp that uses a blood ketone/glucose meter. The meters themselves aren’t very expensive. The test strips are a little pricier. You can get by without measuring … I like to know.

I’m meticulous about weighing all the food and I’ve spent hours making sure the recipes we have been following hit our macros for the day - we both have the same stats so it’s been quite easy in that regard.

We have been using recipes from ruled.me - i’ve been recreating/logging them with the ingredients we have been buying in MyFitnessPal - some of our ingredients must differ in the UK from the US as some of the recipes have worked out at different macros - so i’ve been logging what we have been eating rather than what has been posted on the website to make sure our macros are accurate.

You stole my usual thunder with the above two statements. . I normally advise people to measure what they eat … both in terms of weight … and work out the macros for yourself. I too have used recipes i got off ruled.me and when I take the ingredients I used and calculate the carbs, calories, etc, - I get different numbers … not significantly different … but different. I’m what some might call a wee bit obsessive, but starting out, you want to know for a fact exactly what is going into your body. How do you know that if you don’t measure and confirm. Once you know exactly what and how much you’re eating you can eliminate some key things from the equation*. I put an asterisk by equation because I believe the short answer to your questions is going to be “It depends”.

Before we go back to the pee sticks (it’s amazing the different topics we discuss on this forum) , let me just say that it appears you’re doing the right things. I’m 10 weeks into keto, I had … looking back … probably 25 pounds to lose … which is a LOT on my frame.I’ve lost 7 pounds in 10 weeks. Took me 3-4 weeks for my blood ketone strips to start showing consistently above 1.0. (Dr,. Stephen Phinney is very good on the topic of blood ketones and his famous chart is posted several places on this forum. Spoiler: If you’re above 1.0 on blood ketones … you’re doing ok … more is not necessarily better)

Some people are slower to react than others. I guess there can be several reasons, but the important thing is as long as you’re sure you don’t have any sneaky carbs entering your body - and it sounds like you don’t - it may just take a little longer. The best advice I got … and I didn’t want toi accept it at the time - is t otrust the system and wait. Most of us don’t like to wait. We live in a society where most things are instant … or t 2 days away in the case of Amazon prime.

Sooo … best advice I have … and I’m sure you will eventually get better/more complete advice is to trust the system and keep doing what you’re doing. Make sure your carbs stay under 20 … it’s a good general target. some people can go higher, some have to go lower, but two weeks is too small a sample size in my opinion.

If you really want to measure ketones … I’d suggest splitting the cost of a ketone/glucose meter with your sister. With two people buying strips, the price comes down some and after a while you may not use that many. I and a few other mildly obsessive types on the forum have used the glucose strips (a lot cheaper tahn ketone test strips) to measure our reaction glucose/insulin (guestimated) to different foods and beverages.

I’ve searched exhaustively for the hard and fast keto rule book. I think it’s been misplaced. Think of “The Code” from Pirates of the Caribbean. “More like guidelines”. There are some extremely knowledgeable and helpful members on this forum that will help you find your way, but in the end you’ll be using the guidelines and finding out what works for you.

I’d probably stop sweating the pee sticks and keep doing what you’re doing, read all you can and then read some more (the search function is your friend) and enjoy the ride!

No apologies for all the words :slight_smile:

just the 2 cents worth of one man sitting high up in the cheap seats of life

(Bunny) #5

Some questions I would ask myself:

Do I have enough body fat to lose/burn?

Dangers of a Keto Diet

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If so:

Should I approach this much slower as to not shock my metabolism?

Too early to do macros? (why my body is not going into Ketosis?)

How many times a day do I eat? e.g. starting out with 3 meals a day for maybe a week then graduating to two meals a day for a week then to one meal a day the next week to start the fat adaption (burning ketones for fuel\energy rather than glucose) process, then start applying the macro calculator?”

see also: Potassium Sodium Magnesium ratios

(LeeAnn Brooks) #6

Sometimes I wonder if people don’t just get a bad batch of the strips. Especially if they buy the cheap ones.
No idea if that’s the issue or not, but I do think some companies may not be the most scrupulous.

(Karen) #7

Keto stix

(Ken) #8

Since I doubt you both have significantly deranged metabolisms and train regularly, your body is probably just burning all the ketones. No big deal, don’t get focused on’em as the real issue is Lipolysis, of which ketosis is only a minor part. Go by body measurements and scale weight, but understand the scale can vary widely due to water retention.

#9

thanks for all the replys guys - so nice of you all :slight_smile:

I should have added that we are not expecting massive results right away, we are aware we don’t have much weight if any to lose in terms of what the calculations say - it’s purely vanity lbs now and for me, how I feel - being quite short I really feel like the last few lbs makes a difference to how i feel.

I have been tracking macros for years - usually high protein / low fat /low carbs so sticking to cals and macros isnt a new thing for me - I like to see what’s going in!

We are doing this diet because we have read about the health benefits - the weightloss would just be an added bonus!

I don’t think I could do the fasting aspect - I’m quite active with going to the gym and walking our dogs so i need to eat throughout the day - 3 meals and a couple of snacks… or i feel light headed and get the hanger hah!

I have to say we are not finding this diet hard - the food has been amazing and I can eat cheese! It’s almost indulgent! I love cooking too so all these new meals to try has been a joy really!

I just wanted to make sure I am on the right track - there is so much conflicting advice out there!

thanks again all…

:slight_smile:

(Nico) #10

It sounds like a lot of water. I suggest not to “force feed” yourselves with water, drink to thirst.

(Jay AM) #11

This is how you feel now. We have people doing 30km bike rides fasted. Light headed and hangry is usually low blood sugar which, your past way of eating would have prompted. Not that fasting is necessary but, it’s an option for some. Noting that fasting isn’t about calorie restricting but about insulin controlling.

(Karen) #12

True some of our friends on the forum, including me, have washed out their electrolytes. I ended up on big potassium horse pills. Serious muscles cramps in my forearms. Duh! I had a water challenge with a co-worker for a few days. Head slap.

K

#13

I have a medical issue that requires me to drink 3 litres as a minimum. :slight_smile:

#14

I didn’t get any keto sticks as some people have said on here they’re not that reliable, just stuck to the carb limit & trusted that I was doing okay! Did you measure before you started? If not try that as you might notice more changes than the scales.
It sounds like you know what you’re doing & are being careful- not sure if it makes a difference, but on UK packets, the carbs are already labelled as net carbs, so don’t subtract fibre, it’s different in US. I only subtract fibre from veg.
If you were eating pretty healthily before keto, & low carbs, then you won’t get the whoosh affect of weight at the start which is water weight anyway.
I wouldn’t worry about cutting meals out just yet- cut the snacks out if you can as that will spike insulin, eat til satiety at meals with fat, & you shouldn’t need to snack. Once you’re fat adjusted in hopefully 6 weeks then you might feel you can cut meals.
I’m with you on the cheese- it’s such a treat to be able to eat lots of it!!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #15

Pee strips are junk. They only cause anxiety in new ketonauts. And tell a T1 diabetic when they are up a creek.

I highlighted the water because it is likely you are diluting whatever wasted ketones may be being spilled in your urine with water. This is not bad. It just will produce less result on the pee strips.

Like I said, anxiety for ketonauts.

(Dom DePlume) #16

The one thing I’m most concerned about here is how much you’re eating. It sounds to me like you’re not getting enough calories. Remember, your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is a rate at rest: that is: the calories you need to simply stay alive holding down the couch. Even taking your workouts into account, if you’re repeatedly under your BMR for extended periods, your BMR will FALL down commensurate with the amount of calories that you’re regularly getting. This will have a negative boomerang effect on your body’s ability to both generate ketones, and burn fat. Remember: it’s not that calories don’t count for anything in keto (they do), BUT not in the “all calories are evil” way the CICO folks would have you think. Calories–IMHO–are less like units of fuel, and more like setting points on a thermostat: if you always keep your thermostat set to “low”, you’ll both require less energy to heat your home, but you’ll also have less energy to burn because your environment is sub-optimal. Giving your body enough calories means you’ll have more need for energy (because it’s used to a certain amount of energy in), and thereby BURN more stored energy. I know it’s counter-intuitive, but it’s backed by science.

#17

Hi, My BMR is just over 1300 and i usually eat around 1600 - sometimes a lot more, sometimes a little less depending on what activity I do during the day. I never have a large deficit and I definitely never eat a low amount of cals. Because i track all my activity and food it’s pretty easy to see the days i need more food - im not afraid of eating back exercise cals :slight_smile:

(Dom DePlume) #18

Okay then, if you’ve got–and are working with–your BMR number, then it’s a push. I just brought it up because a lot of people make the mistake of eating too little. You’ve got this…

#19

I have an iwatch so use that and the health app to track my TTDE etc… Also with my sis being a PT she makes sure i eat enough cals :slight_smile:

I guess with this way of eating being new to me/us it’s just interesting to find out what’s going on and when you read a lot of comments about people dropping a lot of weight quickly or going into ketosis within 24 hours it makes you wonder if you’re going wrong some where when you’re not seeing those immediate results also…

We are loving the food and positive effects so far though so we will be sticking with it for the long run - especially having tried a chocolate brownie recipe that was amazing and still fits the macros! :smiley:

thanks again to everyone for the replies :slight_smile:

(Dom DePlume) #20

Oh, yeah. There are SO many reasons why I stay keto even though my weight-loss has stalled out. Those reasons keep me in the game, and get me through the temporary and intermittent frustrations.