A couple tweaks to Jimmy Moore's Egg Fast

#1

I’m going to be starting the egg fast on Monday to help break a plateau. Plus, my birthday is tomorrow and I am not turning down my wife’s apple pie. Lol.

But, to the point – I like the idea of the egg fast and have never done it. But, two “rules” stick out that does not make sense to me: 1) eating an egg within 30 minutes of waking up, and 2) forcing yourself to eat every 3-5 hours even if you are not hungry.

I am not incorporating these two rules. Everything else about the egg fast makes total sense. I’d be curious if anyone can shed light on those two principles and if there is real reason to do them. Thanks.

#2

With PSMFs you do that so your body doesn’t try to go after lean mass, you eat once you wake up to stop any catabolic processes going on. Most likely same idea.

#3

I thought there was plenty of science backing up that IF and keto were very sparing on breaking down muscle. Personally, I have not lost muscle doing mainly an OMAD approach for 3-4 years. But, I do weight lifting, so I am sure that helps. I just do not see the point in stuffing myself with eggs if I am not hungry. And I am never hungry when I wake up.

(Butter Withaspoon) #4

That advice would maybe be helpful for someone who hasn’t fasted and is not at all fat adapted. If you already fast, I’d ignore those 2 rules. Eat to hunger. Could be a good way to only eat what your body really needs because you’re going to get sick of eggs quickly! For fat adaptation I’d be inclined to add butter. To lose fat, I’d stick to eggs.
Non scientific gut feeling here :blush: What are your goals?

#5

You’re lucky, I lost a ton of muscle and slowed the crap out of my RMR with fasting. I only do PSMFs now when I want to speed drop some fat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

I don’t think it matters. The metabolism adjusts, and losing fat should not be a problem as long as insulin is low and we are getting enough calories.

#7

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I’ll keep you posted how next week goes when it’s all done.

(Bob M) #8

You wouldn’t happen to have a CGM, would you? I have a theory that eating breakfast would stop the “insulin resistance” in the morning, and lessen the glucose rise.

It’s interesting that Jimmy Moore is recommending a PSMF. I listened to multiple podcasts with him and a doctor, and they both tried a PSMF and both HATED it. I mean H A T E D it.

In fact, Jimmy Moore got hypoglycemia, which they theorized was a poor glucagon response. They also had a geneticist on later, who was trying to explain this through genetics. They never did reach a conclusion, but Jimmy also got even worse hypoglycemia by eating a 90% fat diet. Jimmy Moore’s metabolism is – how else to characterize this? – messed up.

#9

I am interested about your results and experiences! :slight_smile:

I personally can’t imagine how I could lose anything (except my patience and sanity) during an egg fast except doing it a real fast. It’s insanely fatty to me (the fattiness itself would be fine but not with added fat). But if I can do it, I do an egg fast day on Monday out of curiosity (I often thought about it but I always realized it’s so horrible… But I did a fatphobic day years ago - it was as horrible as I expected -, I don’t need veggies anymore, I did a fat fast and I love my current butter… Theoretically it’s possible to do this, right?). I can even do the timing things except I DON’T force-feed myself. I can eat when not hungry (I do that all the time), I can eat when satiated (I often do that too) but not when I can’t eat and the idea of eating makes me miserable and disgusted and it just… can’t happen.
The 3-5 hour is fine for me, I typically don’t last more between 2 meals on the same day.

Is fat tissue allowed I wonder… Nevermind, I hate that without meat. Sigh. Fat fast is so much nicer… And I haven’t even started. Maybe it will be better than expected.

Thanks, OP, you finally made me decide I will maybe try this, finally. I am curious.

(Bob M) #10

I can’t really find any rules about this. Everything I find is like this:

It’s not actually from Jimmy Moore. And it doesn’t seem to be calorie-restricted, which is what a PSMF is. So, it’s more of a diet with eggs, some fat, and some cheese (1 ounce per day?).

#11

How many of these things work just by eliminating “trigger foods”? If my late-night trigger was eggs-and-cheese maybe the egg fast wouldn’t work. If I tried a “Taco Bell” fast that probably wouldn’t go so great (if included late-night delivery).

#12

It’s almost the opposite of PSMF. I just realized last night that my egg fast plan means 36g protein for that day… Fortunately I have some bigger eggs so it will be 42… (Before I get paranoid at night and eat all the leftover liver :smiley: I usually break super low-protein things, I did it with fat fast despite it was pleasant. I am fine with real fasts - only for a few days - but it’s probably different if we eat…? I don’t know but I HATE that, I don’t take risks, I need to keep my tiny muscles.)

Egg fast is INSANE to me. I only had my first meal (a coffee) and I already feel it was enough… But I will survive a day :slight_smile: I guess.

The calories aren’t limited at all (it’s why I don’t think people lose much fat during an egg fasts - and because no one loses much fat in 3-5 days. I could do 1 pound if I ate the bare minimum, nothing if I ate my usual amount of eggs without meat, others could do some more but it’s not much). The minimum is around 1200 kcal…? That’s my plan as the more the food, the more the added fat and it’s already awfully much at the minimum level, about 10 times as much as I prefer.

Why not? But it probably depends on your attitude to egg+huge amounts of fat. I love eggs, I half-live on them, they are satiating but not too much, they are perfect (except one can’t fully live on them but it’s fine, that’s why we have meat and other things for). But add this fat and I will rather not be hungry… And I can’t overeat eggs even without fat. So I surely will eat little today. If that will be useful, I don’t know. I don’t even know if I will be satiated but probably, I ate many eggs yesterday! I prefer sustainable diets, that’s why I try to do my own version of carnivore-ish.
But an experimental extra day can teach us something, it may be interesting and fun from the right viewpoint even if the meals will be quite odd (despite containing some of my most beloved ingredients).

(Kenny Croxdale) #13

For What Reason?

What is the reason for eating an egg upon waking?

For What Reason?

This makes no sense.

As per…

Intermittent Fasting Is Protein Sparing

Research has determine that Intermittent Fasting triggers Fat Burning and Muscle Sparing up to 72 hours; with the sweet spot appearing to be between 16 to 24 hours.

Research (Volek/Phinney) determine that Leucine level were increase and maintaned in a Ketogenic Diet.

That meaning an elevation in ketones is protective of Muscle Proteins; espeically Leucine.

Leucine (the anabolic amino acid) is the anabolic trigger that maintanes and increase muscle mass. In this regard, the same effect occur with Intermittent Fasting; elevated ketones.

The survival mechanism of the body realizes the need to maintain or increase muscle mass. Thus, it utilzied body fat for fuel first, sparing Muscle Protein.

Third, research found frequent eating (every three hours) produces an increase in blood sugar; less with proteins and fats. However, there is still an increase in blood sugar.

The increase in blood sugar trigger Insulin Release.

An increase in Insulin shut down that fat buring process.

The old Bodybuilding belief that eating every three hours increase an individual metabloic rate is incorrect. (ISSN, Dr. John Berardi).

Also, is dampens…

Muscle Protein Synthesis

Research by Drs Layne Norton and Gabe Wilson determined Muscle Protein Synthesis; which is one of the factors that increases muscle mass, occur when meals are consumed every 4 - 6 hours,

Research show this is especially true with…

Pulse Feeding For Older Individual

Older individual who consume higher protein intake, meals space father apart, optimize Muscle Protein Synthesis; maintain and/or increase muscle mass.

The Low Calorie Egg Diet

This is a low calorie diet. Any diet that decrease calorie intake, decreases body fat and body weight

A great illustration of that is,

The Twinkee Diet

Mark Haub (MS Nutrition, Kansas State University) went on a Low Calorie Twinkee Diet (junk food diet) for three months

Haub dropped 27 lb of body weight, reduced his BMI and improved his cholesterol numbers.

It pointed out that any diet that decresse calories will decrease body weight and body fat.

Any drop in weight improve cholesterol numbers.

Haub went on to state that he did NOT recommend the Twinkee Diet.

Kenny Croxdale

(Kenny Croxdale) #14

It’s Calorie Restiction

That is exactly what the Egg Diet is; a Calorie Restrictive Diet.

The article you posted on it stated that…

"…You’ll also go into a caloric deficit."

Kenny Croxdale

#15

Nope, it’s not calorie restrictive if you are able to eat this much fat. There is absolutely no limit on calories. I’ve read another article where someone said they ate 10 eggs and well, that’s a lot of calories considering it means 150g fat and optionally up to 10 oz cheese as well. But as days pass and for the normal person… Yes, I would think it will bring a calorie deficit. But the same is true for keto too, many people automatically eat at a deficit there. The chances are probably different though.
And people with a huge calorie need must be at a disadvantage - but they probably don’t do this. MANY people are at a disadvantage, they probably do something else…

No idea why this is hyped but I saw much worse ideas. I still wouldn’t suffer for a single pound loss in 4-5 days at most (no way it would be more, my body doesn’t lose fat unless it needs the energy) but each to their own.

So it’s probably calorie restrictive to many but not to the ones who actually can and willing to eat such perverted meals…? The egg fast itself isn’t calorie restrictive, there are no limits.

Nope, I don’t think egg fast makes sense either, I have so better ideas but I still do it today (possibly adding some protein in the end. but I tracked, end up with 50g anyway, that’s not too low for me. I am just used to my 120-200g a day). Except I thought it was a meal in the morning, not an egg. Oh well. It was part of an egg :smiley: It could have been an egg. I always can eat an egg. But a coffee is even usual for me so I had that. And I eat whenever I want, obviously so in every 2-3 hours this far as normal to me. I don’t think forcefulness is advisable, it sounds very, very wrong.

(Bob M) #16

It’s a diet that is supposed to allow you to eat fewer calories, but it’s not a PSMF. I think an egg “fast” could actually do that, as I find eggs highly satiating. An egg fast is something I would try (though probably not like this one: no need to eat breakfast and no need for cheese). It’s on my list of things to try.

Meanwhile a PSMF (which is what I mistakenly thought this was) is a very low calorie diet:

Thus, in the egg fast, you eat as much as you want, but they think you’ll reduce your calories. For a PSMF, you know you’ll be eating few calories. You’re not allowed to eat more, even if you’re hungry.

I was mistaken about Jimmy Moore’s egg fast also being a PSMF.

#17

Cheese is optional. I wouldn’t eat cheese on an egg fast (unless if I had some very good reason for it. I didn’t feel the need today and it’s good as I don’t have any cheese).

I ended up with 1250 kcal, 49g protein and 113g fat for today (though it’s possible I will get hungry later, who knows? but I definitely break the roles then, I am so done) - using everything I could to make the protein:fat ratio higher. There is a wriggle room, after all just not much.
41 and 124g would have been my result if I used normal sized eggs and 15g pure fat for each but it was horrible enough this way. The dishes were tasty though.
I ate the bare minimum as I don’t like eating like this but I never even waited until hunger, I ate whenever I was in the kitchen. It was very easy to eat, I just didn’t like the feeling after the greasy food.

I kept everything the minimum to minimize my suffering, it wasn’t really much, I have no regrets. Thanks to my carnivore training and my changes lately (I like my diet fattier now and I don’t need plants or mushrooms to dilute my very fatty items), I actually can handle this fattiness, I didn’t reach a true nausea, I just got near to it. The 83% fat is probably my personal record barring my single 88% fat fast day but it’s nothing extreme, I could do this by my own will just with different items, definitely without much added fat. 0-10g added fat a day is just perfect for me. I had 72g today. The last time I had that amount or possibly much more I ate a lot of chocolate… That’s the only way for me to overdo added fat while enjoying it.

I probably won’t try 3-5 days, proving I don’t really lose weight on it wouldn’t worth it to me and I see zero benefits. I may do some drastically altered versions… Strictness does good to me sometimes, eggs are satiating but not too satiating to me, I like them… Maybe I even could do something very similar except with a better egg:fat ratio. Like 30g lard, 30g butter, 12 eggs? But isn’t it better to eat in a more sustainable, nutritionally more complete way? Yes it is.
But very, very occasionally I can benefit from a strangely strict day. It happened in the past.

(Bob M) #18

My only reason for attempting the egg fast is because when I ate eggs for my first meal during Lent, I got a large satiety effect. Much better than what I got while eating fish. (Though, to be fair, I did not calorie match these meals.) So, maybe an egg fast could work, or at least provide one more tool in the toolbox?

And I think eggs are pretty nutritionally sufficient. It’s hard to find something with more nutrition, actually. (Though I do get concerned about the PUFAs.)

I think as a short-term test of maybe a week or less, an egg fast might work. Or maybe it’ll become so monotonous, you won’t want to eat anyway? :wink:

#19

But they don’t have everything… I can’t get enough calcium and magnesium from eggs (if we can trust the RDAs… we can’t though as our woe has something to do with them. my magnesium intake stayed lowish on carnivore but my problems disappeared), they have no vitamin C…
But they are pretty nutritious still, that’s true. And way harder to eat even just 1500 kcal using them unlike meat… It’s not necessarily a good thing, of course. I need my 1500 kcal and a bit more a day (and often a meal) to get satiated… It’s hard with almost only eggs but they provide a great base as long as I don’t get bored with them.

I got hungry after my last comment here, added a half egg with the obligate fat… Stayed hungry and was a bit miserable so I ate other things and got way better. I don’t want to try such a day again but I don’t really have regrets, I appreciate the freedom of carnivore now… It’s so much more enjoyable and of course, sustainable… :smiley: Maybe I will stick a bit better to it in the near future :wink: A too strict day sometimes have this effect on me.
I may have some eggs and fat only meals in the future but with WAY less fat. Or a different fat. I actually may try an egg fast like day with pork belly instead of added fat (they are heaven and earth to me. I had eggs and fat before many times and I felt great. so it’s the added fat, I always knew I should be careful with it but I mostly did it due to the bad satiating/satisfying effect) but only if my body is in agreement. My first meal showed I don’t like this. But some fat would help with having enough calories to get satiated without getting bored of eggs first.
I still think adding meat is the best idea, maybe one can restrict that somehow if overeating is too easy or whatever. I personally hardly overeat using only meat and eggs especially longer term. One high-calorie day may happen but that’s it, the average is fine.

I’ve read an egg fast article about the wonderfulness of eggs but I eat this many or more eggs anyway. It’s significantly easier to eat eggs without all this fat…

But it’s surely good for someone. I always wanted to try this as eggs are my most important items but the fat part scared me. With reason.

I have always read it’s only for 3-5 days. And it’s easily very low-protein. Not anyone can eat huge amounts of fat in the egg fast way to get adequate protein. I easily could eat 2-300g fat a day (my protein need isn’t high) but not like this.