800 calorie liver shrink diet

(Laurie) #21

Sending some hugs to help resist going back to smoking:hugs::hugs:

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #22

When using body fat for energy, my understanding is that it gets moved from wherever on your body to your liver - since your liver is what does the conversion from fat to ketones. Therefore, your liver will always have a level of fat around it at least commensurate with overall body fat.

This is just my understanding - I have not done an in-depth dive into the subject so it might be inaccurate. If anyone has a different understanding, I’d like to hear it.

(Edith) #23

I’m thinking it’s because they want to make sure your body utilizes its fat stores by not ingesting any fat? Also, from what I understand, your body will use its visceral fat before it uses subcutaneous fat.

Since you are already fat adapted, I would think low calorie and lowfat will really get your body to use its fat stores.

I hope you get the results you need.

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #24

Chiming in with another piece of wisdom I’ve heard - and no idea if it’s true or not. When dieting or fasting, cigarettes, for some reason, are said to be much more damaging to your health than when you have food in your stomach.

Probably good to resist smoking. Which stinks (pun intended) because it would be awesome to be able to use that as a replacement for the satisfaction of eating.

(Megan) #25

Hey @davemha, I love what you have after your forum nick. If fat is moved from the body to the liver I’m guessing it’s moved via the blood stream into the liver, where the liver converts it into ketones. Also fatty liver fat is fat cells inside your liver, not around it. Tho fat around our organs isn’t a good thing either. Thankfully I have very little visceral fat according to my CT scans. Mine is subcutaneous. Yay.

Interesting!

#26

I have been trying to stop eating by 5. It has worked pretty well over the last year, lost about 24 lbs. One of the reasons it works is that I am just not that hungry (usually, some exceptions) before 5. Right now I am almost forcing myself to eat because I know I will be hungry later and playing tennis soon. My body knows that after dark it is not getting food so no matter how hungry I might be, it is tolerable. I am often not hungry. My point is for me, a smaller amount of food prior to 5 is usually enough and I am used to not eating at night

While it is probably too late, because there is about a two week adjustment until you get used to eating early

(Megan) #27

Thanks @Garp94 Laurie :heart: I’ve resisted the urges so far. It’s a difficult addiction to overcome that’s for sure. My friend, who lives with me, smokes and sometimes it smells so good lol.

(Megan) #28

Thanks @VirginiaEdie Edith. I hope I do too. “How did my liver look?” will probably be one of the 1st questions I ask my surgeon :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

(Megan) #29

Hi Saphire, I admire folks who can do that and grats on your weight loss. Before this 2 weeks of ‘torture’ I, too, have had a much-reduced appetite, especially compared to my 1st 14 or so months eating carni. But that desire for a small nighttime snack hasn’t left. But then, I’m not the most disciplined person and at least it’s a low fat zero carb carni snack :woman_shrugging:

#30

That’s funny. I understand the addiction but the smell always bothered me.
.
I started with the 5 PM cutoff because I read a book by Cate Shanahan as well as some other articles. There are medical rationales for it, something along the lines that your glucose sensitivity and processing is much better during the daytime than at night. I forget where I got this.

Along with this theory there is also some thought that this should be seasonal so as you head into summer you eat later, as long as it is still daylight. I do not follow that since in the winter it is dark here by 4!

I used to tended to eat very late. I loved eating from 7 - 10 (I do not go to sleep until well after midnight). However, I also would constantly have this urge to explore the kitchen. I never understood why I could eat nothing and be content but if I ate anything, even eggs, it made me hungrier. Jason Fung mentions the idea of the “appetizer” eating some food whets your appetite. Even though I am sometimes hungry at night, it is very controllable in way it did not use to be. I simply tell myself I can have it for lunch. The weird part is that most things are not worth the effort at lunchtime which is another reason I eat less. I almost feel like I should start writing down what I am craving at 8PM so I can have it at 12 PM

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #31

Actually, Robert Lustig says that a liver enlarged from glycogen storage is not unhealthy. It’s the fat deposits and eventual scarring (cirrhosis) from alcohol/fructose that is damaging. Exercise and cutting carbs should reduce liver glycogen, and cutting way back on ethanol and fructose can allow the liver to heal surprisingly quickly if the damage isn’t too great.

(Megan) #32

Day 9 and hanging in here. Mid afternoons are awful and sleep is pretty hit and miss. I have a new appreciation for the carrying affect (and taste!) of the cream I put in my coffees. It keeps hunger at bay for most of the day. Looking forward to having great tasting cups of coffee again.

I weighed yesterday, 1kg down. I was expecting a bit more but I have no clue what’s reasonable expectation when only eating 800 calories for 7 days. BMI calculators say I have 17kg to lose before I even enter the normal range but there is absolutely no way I am going to get to that weight as I am a beanpole with a gaunt face 5 kg higher. I’ll be happy and will look good at just 10 more kg lost. Also, do BMI calculators give accurate numbers for very tall and very short people? I’m a 6 foot 3 inch tall (190cm) 62yo female.

I was rung yesterday to tell me I need to be admitted on Thursday morning instead of Friday as I need to undergo the joys of bowel prep pre-op. When I was nursing we gave high bowel washouts but I’m sure things have moved on since then lol, and that only cleaned out the large intestine. Makes me wonder what my CT scan a few days back showed, given he’s added in this pre-op step.

(Robin) #33

Hopefully you are close to a resolution and good health again. It’s no small feat to go thru everything you have experienced.
Hang in there.

#34

I would expect 1 kg from my own body as that would be logical… Maybe a tad more. But this is just the fat-loss, I could expect a bit more. And it’s not totally linear so zero weight loss according to the scale would be possible too.

Let’s hope the changes in your liver are bigger and better!!!

BMI calculators are only useful in extreme cases. If your BMI is tiny or huge, it’s clearly a problem but in the middle, it knows NOTHING and should be ignored. I have eyes, I prefer using them over some clearly wrong assumption about my good weight! Don’t worry about BMI.

Probably not especially if I remember how it is calculated. But it’s not accurate at all in the thin-chubby range anyway. For people being anywhere remotely close to normal, it’s not very useful to use. There are those photos about people with the same height, gender and BMI, with drastically different body composition :slight_smile: Even the same person shows BMI is useless when it’s not extreme but different people hold their weight differently too. Some women with great figure can pull off a high BMI I never could without looking fat, not even if I actually gained the muscle I try to gain!
I suspect your tallness is an important factor so as you found, “normal” BMI isn’t normal for you.

I am cheering for you!!! :heart:

(Megan) #35

I have fallen off the wagon and don’t think I can get back on. One of the foods I’ve bought to take into hospital are very low carb protein bars. I had one a couple of days ago, 2 the next day plus some cheese, and 3 yesterday, plus some cheese and rump steak. They taste like chocolate bars, once you get used to them. They may be very low carb but they are very sweet, so full of artificial sweeteners. The meal replacement shakes are also quite sweet. Serves me right for eating non-food, which I typically avoid like the plague. /sigh

I have been really angry the past couple of days about this stupid diet and craving cigarettes like crazy. Eating a protein bar has almost been an act of anger and defiance. But also my carb addiction, because they taste like chocolate bars. I have been so sick of feeling hungry and feeling empty too. Shakes may be somewhat satiating for some but not for me and my usual keto lack of appetite well and truly disappeared after the 1st 2 days.

I don’t know what to do, but I’m leaning towards just going back to eating carnivore but eating less fat than I typically would. So, no cream in my coffee and no cheese and draining off the fat the comes from cooking ground beef. I feel like my body has been assaulted by cr*p the past 11 days and I need to eat right to apologize to it and repair any resulting insult.

Eating carnivore means there is very little, if any, glycogen in my liver and that’s a big part of what the liver reduction diet is trying to achieve. I thought my surgeon understood keto because he nodded approvingly when I said that’s how I eat, but maybe he has very little idea. Most docs are clueless, after all. As for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, my liver enzymes are in the low range of normal, and when I was eating a ton of carbs and general rubbish they were in the mid-range of normal. I know he’s anxious about performing a muscle closure, but I really don’t think I can do this damn diet for another 5 days. My plan today is to wait to hear from God. I should have talked with him in the 1st place but typical me goes off gun ho on my own. Apologies to anyone offended by my talking about God.

#36

That sounds good to me… If I had to do anything remotely similar, I would focus on lean meat (juicy pork, maybe some beef) as it’s the most satiating/satisfying item I can imagine for myself (except maybe seitan but that’s a bit fattier and I bet I would get bored of it even quicker than of lean pork). I would need something else but meat works so well when I am hungry.
Protein bars sound like things that easily mess up things. I would avoid sweet and very processed stuff (though IDK how processed yours are. I have no problem with okay processed items but all I like is really high fat, good for fat fast days).

I feel sorry for you, it must be so hard, I would be very upset and moody and miserable :frowning: Hopefully you get some guidance (from God or your body or mind) and manage to make it easier on you!!!

(KM) #37

Deep breaths!!! You can do this. You can do anything for five days! Distract yourself if you can. Take a walk. Take a bath. Take a nap. Write a long letter to us about how much you are looking forward to life after this surgery. :hugs::hugs::hugs:

#38

I feel for you, sounds like it’s been a really tough journey for you when you’re I’m sure stressed already about surgery! This is just my opinion, I am not knowledgeable about the science of all this & not a medical professional, but if your liver enzymes were low on keto & you’ve been doing keto a while, maybe switch back to keto for the next 5 days? Will pray you get answers & that your surgery goes well, & sending you a hug too :pray::hugs:

(Laurie) #39

I don’ t know when you have to go in tomorrow, so sending you good luck and prayers now.
You’ve done the best you could for your body up to this point. Now the surgeon gets your body for a few days, and when you come home you can continue to take care of yourself
:pray::two_hearts:

(Megan) #40

Thanks everyone for your replies and wonderful support. I leave in a few hours and will hopefully be home in about 6 days. I’ve been eating clean low fat carni the past 3 days and feel so much better. And nowhere near as hungry as I was on the shakes, despite the calories being the same. Who woulda thunk real food trumped man made food huh? :crazy_face: Today is bowel prep and clear fluids only, tomorrow is surgery day. See you all on the other side!