800 calorie liver shrink diet

(Megan) #1

I’m having surgery on the 30th of this month to repair a very large abdominal hernia. The surgery will take most of the day as I need my abdominal wall reconstructed. Part of the pre-op plan is to do a liver shrinking diet for 2 weeks. My surgeon said to use Optifast shakes but I’ve found a somewhat less offensive meal replacement product to use. The ingredients in Optifast are awful, especially for someone who eats zero processed foods and eats carnivore (except for a bit of coffee). Not that all the ingredients in the product I’m using are great, but they’re better.

Anyway, I’m on day 2 and figured I’d start a thread to burble in, as needed, and to hear from anyone who has any experience with this diet. It’s usually used for folks having bariatric surgery because they need to move part of the liver out of the way to access the stomach, and if the liver isn’t depleted of fat and glycogen it can break/tear quite easily. My surgeon wants me to get my liver as small as possible to create more space inside so he can hopefully perform a muscle closure, tho there will also be a fair bit of man-handling my liver during the surgery. I’ve also had botox injected into my abdominal muscles about a month ago to try and relax them as some are very contracted making a muscle closure impossible.

I’ve gone backwards and forwards on the idea of just eating 800 calories of meat a day and may still do that, but for now I’m doing the shakes. I’m stressed about only eating 800 calories a day and being an all or nothing person I’m thinking not eating anything solid at all may be easier than eating a small amount of food. If I ate veg it might be different as I’d be able to get a lot more bulk for 800 calories, but I don’t.

I have a question for folks who know about set points. Both times I’ve eaten carnivore I get to the weight I’m currently at then weight loss stops for months. Would eating 800 calories a day for 2 weeks help break through the set point? I’m a bit worried I’ve messed up my metabolism by possible undereating tho, as I lost 0 weight after 6 days nil by mouth in hospital a couple of months back. Maybe 2 weeks of 800 calories a day will do squat for weight loss, tho should still shrink my liver (I hope!)…

Thanks for reading!

(KM) #2

From what I know, liver enlargement, i.e fatty liver disease, is caused by either alcohol, fructose, or (?) glycogen storage. Is there any actual proof that simply reducing calories will significantly reduce the size of your liver? I am not a doctor, just theorizing here, but wouldn’t going strict zero carb be a more efficient way of reducing liver size without actually going into an unhealthy amount of energy restriction?

(Alec) #3

If you are already carnivore, my view would be that your liver is already about as small as it’s going to get. Does the doctor know that your liver needs shrinking, or is he just ticking the boxes?

(icky) #4

Personally I find extended fasting easier than restricting food intake… If you do it properly, your body will go into evolutionary “starvation” mode (a feature, not a bug!) and you won’t feel any hunger at all. I’d go with the just liquids approach.

(Megan) #5

hi @kib1

The liver shrink diet (highish protein, very low carb and fat, very low calorie) definitely reduces the size of your liver by depleting it of glycogen and fat. The fat in the liver causes it to be very soft and to tear/break quite easily when being moved and held out of its normal position by instruments during surgery. I’m carnivore so there shouldn’t be much glycogen in mine, but still overweight so there’s some fat in it. The short-term energy restriction is meant to force the body to use up the glycogen and burn at least some of the fat. I may have some days of eating 800 calories of lean meat over the next 2 weeks. Something like very lean chicken breast.

(Megan) #6

Hey @Alecmcq

Yea it’s definitely a bit bigger than normal as per all the CT scans I’ve had recently. I guess it’s because I still have weight to lose so I’m still storing some fat in my liver. Because achieving adequate muscle closure is going to be very difficult he needs it to get as small as possible. The hernia is on my right side right where my liver sits.

(Megan) #7

Thanks @sugar-addict. I’m a bit worried that if I eat some of the time I’ll kick in feelings of hunger and start bargaining with myself for more solid food, whereas if I only drink my calories I’ll find it easier. Only one way to find out I guess. Day 2 is almost at an end, hasn’t been in any way hard (yet? lol)

#8

I can’t say anything useful but I wish you good luck! And I am curious how you will find your super low-cal temporal diet and what exactly you will eat on it… Wait, some protein shakes, right? Doesn’t feel like food BUT that may be the key, little food probably would trigger hunger and appetite and everything, maybe shakes are still better…
I personally would be totally lost as I just can’t eat so tiny, it makes me super hungry. Except potentially on fat fast but basically only protein? It just isn’t enough. And not enjoyable either for me - and yes, it’s not about joy when one needs to do things for a surgery but I have virtually zero experience with forcing down food I really hate and can’t seem to stomach. I probably would go for fasting, not ideal but probably better than barely eating. I must have done that personally as NO WAY I could do the 800 kcal. I always say I can’t do EF anymore but I don’t have such a huge motivation. I could if I had to. And 2 weeks isn’t a super long time, be it fasting or starvation, I wouldn’t worry much, I just wouldn’t do it without some big need, worrying about my metabolism and possibly sanity.

IDK if you are like this but whenever I am determined because I have a very important reason or I am just that serious, my hunger changes. I don’t start to want food nearly as much as normally. So my mental state helps a lot! (I still doubt I could do well with 800 kcal but I never tried it. determined fasting and starvation due to lack of money was easy, I don’t remember feeling hungry. neither lasted for 2 whole weeks though. Lean pork is very satiating for me, I wonder how long I could last, I should try it, I eat way too much and 1-2 days should be doable. Theoretically.) And I would do great sacrifices for my health. I just never felt a big need, thankfully.

(Laurie) #9

I’m casting my vote for fasting also. The chronic low-calorie intake is what puts our bodies into storage mode, as well as keeping [ me] hungry and cranky. When you do eat, it should be a good amount of calories, . Maybe fast every other day and eating at least 2000cals for your feeding day[ possibly in one meal]? , or fasting 2 days and eating 2400-3000 cals?? I’m only suggesting this for the short time between now and your surgery.

For me, I would need to eat real food. Drinking calories doesn’t satisfy my hunger like chewing food does.
Kudos to skipping the chemical laden drink.
It is a process. I’ve not reached my goal yet myself. Lots of excuses, but I’m getting there.

Good luck with whatever eating plan you choose, and your surgery.

(Bob M) #10

If you want to try eating, try a protein sparing modified fast, basically a very low calorie (800 if you want that), high protein, low fat diet. You could try one meal a day or even 2-3 small meals. For me, this does cause some hunger, though.

(Megan) #11

Yea, I’ve decided to do a mix of very low cal meal replacement shakes and protein shakes. The dang Optifast he said for me to use has 18 grams of carb per serve. Like WTF?! Tho I suppose 18 grams is nothing for a non-keto carb eater but I eat carni! So no way. The protein shake I’ve chosen has basically no carbs and the meal replacement I’m using only has 6. I can live with that. Neither have any fat to speak of - less than 2 grams in each.

Yea, just for 2 weeks right before surgery. I’m expecting some days to be hard, possibly even miserable, but having watched some surgeries where the liver has torn and bled a lot I really have to do this. It was crazy watching the surgeries, the surgeon was being gentle and careful but it still tore.

Yea, that’s what I’m hoping will happen.

(Megan) #12

Hi Laurie,

I don’t think doing this will achieve the results my surgeon is needing.

I have no idea what’s going on with my metabolism at the moment. Not losing any weight at all after 6 days nil by mouth a few months ago kind of worries me. But this 2 weeks of very low calories has to happen then I’ll go back to trying to figure out what’s going on with my weight loss. Any thoughts re my question about set points?

(Megan) #13

Hi Bob, that’s pretty much what the very low cal meal replacement shakes are trying to mimic, except I have no clue why they aren’t as crazy about low carb as they are about low fat. That’s why I decided to do a mix of a basically zero carb protein shake product and the lowest carb meal replacement shakes I could find.

Any thoughts about the set point question I asked?

(Megan) #14

I slept horribly last night, couldn’t fall asleep for hours and napped at best between 3am-8am. I find it hard to fall asleep when empty. I figured this would happen but hope it’s not going to happen most nights because I’m at my weakest at nighttime when it comes to wanting to eat something. Hankering for some cream in my coffee lol. Bought a couple of “fancy” coffees to have with the 1/4 strength milk powder I’ve made up. It’s a workable substitute (kinda!).

It’s been interesting watching a bunch of you tube vids done by people doing the liver shrink diet right before their bariatric surgery. This is going to be easier for me because I ditched highly processed non-food and high carb-plus-fat food ages ago. Also, since restarting carni in Feb this year I haven’t been eating nearly as much meat as I did last time and have the famous keto induced reduction in appetite.

Day 3 today. Wish me luck!

(Robin) #15

All the best wishes heading your way!

(Megan) #16

Thanks Robin :heart: How’s your post-op recovery coming along?

(Laurie) #17

If you’re trying to get your body to lower it’s set point, but have stalled because of chronic caloric restriction, I think your body has decided it doesn’t like to be chronically energy restricted, so it’s holding onto it’s weight all the harder. It’s not going to be ‘tricked’ that way again.

Calorie restriction works initially for many people, but at some point the body starts worrying about future meals and metabolism slows down. You need to feast intermittently for your body to relax enough to use it’s fat stores. That’s part of why cheat days help some people.
When intermittent fasting works [ acknowledging there are lots of variations on that theme, I’m referring to the 16:8 to 1-2 days of fasting] it’s because it’s alternating with days[1-5] where the body is getting plenty of calories. Too many days of EOD fasting can also fail [ personal experience included], because your average is still below daily maintenance.
Your PSMF might do the trick , but might not. Everybody is different.
Ignoring your deadline, I’d agree with most of the people on this forum that a healthy body weight and body composition will be achieved by eating healthy food and not eating anything unhealthy. [and managing stress and any other conditions you might have]. To lose body fat, at some point you might consider a refeed. Since you’re 2 weeks away from surgery, that’s not really an option since many people gain weight at the beginning of a refeed.
Does that answer your Q re: set points?

Good luck with your surgery

(Robin) #18

Super good, thanks.

(Megan) #19

Thanks Laurie!

(Megan) #20

Day 5. Okay, this isn’t fun. I ate some of my calories in real food last night which went okay. I was still hungry tho. Glad this is only for 2 weeks. Not eating to satiety and either feeling empty or hungry is really increasing my cravings for a cigarette. Probably because I’m stressed about the upcoming surgery too. I stopped in Dec last year and haven’t slipped once. Plan not to too. Plus I know the 1st couple take absolutely revolting and won’t give me the effect I’m hankering for.