60g of carbs and still in keto?

#1

Hi guys, I’m finding I’m feeling much better at a range of about 60g net carbs and still have ketones in circulation… I’m guessing this is not common as I can’t find a google search on it!

My macros are 10% carbs, 25% protein, 65% fat.

I was 0.8 mmol this morning after a finger prick.

35, M, 5’7”, 70kg.

Weekly routine:-
Strength
Jog
HIIT
Jog
Strength
Jog
Full rest day

Fat early in the day,
fat, protein and very low carb mid day
Protein and carbs in evening

Probs not technically keto? But that doesn’t really matter imo.

(Bob M) #2

That sounds reasonable. You’re doing a lot of exercise. Don’t see why you can’t be in ketosis.

Are you using blood?

#3

Yea using a blood monitor, on call is the brand.

I upped my calories to around 2750 and feel a lot better on that too.

I have struggled to consistently feel good, it takes a lot of playing around.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

Sixty grams of carbohydrate is probably below your carbohydrate threshold. It depends entirely on how insulin-resistant you are, and what the insulin response is to your dietary carbohydrate load. Dr. Phinney says I’m imagining things, but I clearly remember him saying, in a couple of the early presentations he made at Low Carb Down Under events (available on YouTube), that 100 or even 125 g/day was low enough to be ketogenic for some people. The more diabetic someone is, however, the lower that person’s carb tolerance.

Personally, I find I have a fairly high tolerance, but there is a zone of carb intake where I am still in ketosis, but a lot of the aches and pains in my joints return, to say nothing of my acne and liver spots. So in any case, I find I feel my best when keeping my carb intake as low as possible.

#5

Probably at least targeted keto. Your activity level seems high and those carbs are probably replenishing glycogen stores. What carbs are you consuming? What does that 60g net look like total?

#6

This morning I pricked myself at 0.7mmol, had fairly decent sleep and felt good in the morning (even though have some seriously F’d up work stuff to deal with this morning, lost a lot of money on a big job :weary:)

Yesterday’s macro’s:- (might up the calories more as I’m hungry this morning, could be for hydration but it feels like food hunger!)

Calories - 3095
Carbs - 66g (9%)
Protein - 191g (25%)
Fat - 228g (66%)

Yesterday’s events:-
Went for an easy morning jog - 5km, 45 mins

Walking around and a bit of lifting at work as an electrician.

Afternoon dog walk - 45 mins

Breakfast:-
2 cups of coffee
1.5 tbs mct oil
60g butter

Lunch:-
200g roasted keto veggies - 24g carbs
Meatballs - 2g carbs
Avo - 1g
Spinach and kale - 2g
Pumpkin seeds - 1g
Brazil nuts - 1g
Greek yogurt - 3g
Chicken thighs - 0g

Dinner:-
Chinese pork and ginger soup - 12g

Snacks:-

Afternoon:-
Tandoori chicken pieces with seasoning - 10g

Evening:-
50g raspberries - 3g
20g dark chocolate - 7g
1 scoop of protein powder - 1g

(Allie) #7

If it works for you all good, you’re active so will burn through carbs that way. Sounds like you’re on the right track for sure, especially as you’re playing around to find what makes you feel good. That said, I’d be curious to see your results without the added MCT.

(Joey) #8

This makes me wonder (given your use of metric data above), are you talking about net carbs after subtracting fiber content? I know you’ve said “net carbs” but just want to be sure since we sometimes talk past each other given the salt water divide between our continents.

#9

Maybe it’s the roasted weight and they lost that much water…? For 200g fresh vegetables (definitely not what people call keto at all…) it’s a quite high carb content… So high that they must have lost very much water if they were normal keto vegs…

#10

Hi mate, see attached photo RE net carbs. If it even worked! I’m new around here :joy:

image
D1C7B67F-54B6-4403-A0A7-72984998B696.jpg1125×2436 259 KB

#11

Hi Shinita…attached photo of raw quantities added…does the carb content reduce once cooked?

image
B7BAA5D5-D3A5-40FC-B532-71D217AF16FA.jpg1125×2436 282 KB

(Joey) #12

Wow, thanks. Well, it must be those red onions. Broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, olive oil, vinegar… these are all rather low carb (especially after fiber) plant ingredients. Based on a quick nutrition search re: red onions, they are likely spiking the carb count.

I’m not suggesting you’re eating too much carbs, but if you’re trying to reduce, I’d cut way back on the onions. We use them sparingly and focus on above-the-ground veggies - which tend to be far more “keto friendly” than roots.

:vulcan_salute:

#13

I agree. Could be an easy way to reduce the carbs, if that’s the goal.

#14

The carb content doesn’t change but the carb content per 200g definitely does if the veggies lose much water.

It’s a very onion-y dish :smiley: I love onions but as time passed, I used them less and less. It’s very flavorful so a little goes a long way. But not everyone needs to go very low with carbs :wink: To me, ketosis isn’t enough, I must go lower. Or just use less plants, who knows? I changed multiple things when the good changes happened. But I kept my onions, I just use them occasionally and in small amounts. Almost only when really needed like in stews.

(Joey) #15

Agreed that reducing water content doesn’t inherently reduce the carb content. However, cooking (heat) likely does. Much in the way that fermenting reduces carbs (the bacteria convert a portion of the carbs into CO2), I would imagine that cooking onions would reduce the carb content to some extent.

Science or fantasy?

#16

It’s too deep for me but I doubt it’s significant. We already can’t know things exactly. I don’t even measure ketones or BS or whatever. I don’t even feel if I am in ketosis, it’s the same to me. I just track sometimes and try to figure out what kind of eating results in me feeling good…
But this is an interesting thought… And it complicates already complex things. Different type of carbs already may feel different… I never noticed it affects ketosis but as I only rarely felt if I am in ketosis, it means little. But it surely affects how I feel. More or less pure sugar (but something significant, not like onion but sweet fruits) alone is the worst, not surprisingly. I can’t imagine getting sugar poisoned from onions… Getting out of ketosis, maybe if I go crazy… (My ketosis carb limit seemed to be around 40-45g when I still could tell when I went in and out.)

#17

I’m not trying to stay strictly “keto”, I love the keto ideology…as in I’ve had blips of that clear and focussed feeling and I want more, but what I’ve found is that since upping the carbs to that extent I’ve felt at a much better level.

I’ll carry on experimenting in the future but at the moment I’m really busy with work and it’s working for me so I’ll crack on as is just to be on the safe side. I know everyone’s nutritional requirements are different, I’ve chased the keto way for a long time and appreciate the advice about ditching onions but onions are my bff’s at the mo!

#18

I surely wouldn’t keep myself from my dear onions. Or fruits… sigh. I tried (just temporarily but in fruit season) but it’s futile.
I am merely lucky to be able to be content with little but if someone needs much and works well with a higher carb intake, that’s cool too :wink:

#19

I am 38yo and regularly eat as much as 60g net carbs, sometimes more, and I have still enjoyed huge benefits from dramatically lowering my carbs, and increasing both fat and protein: more satisfying food, less sugar and junk cravings, less bloating, better digestion etc. It was quite painless to lose a few kgs and I am now in the middle of a healthy weight range which I am easily maintaining so far. I exercise (4 x circuit class per week and lots of gentle walking) but not as much as you. I eat onions, berries, carrots, tomatoes and dairy milk every day, and some beans or lentils most weeks. This carb level has been working brilliantly for about 4 months now. If it stops working, I know strict ketosis is there as a tool for me to use.

Since you appear to be a very healthy weight, obviously lead an active life, and say you are feeling good, I’d consider not worrying about your ketone levels. I know ketosis is a specific physiological state but I like to think of “ketogenic living” as a little bit more of a flexible spectrum, whereby you can subscribe to lots of the useful ideas and principles, and reject the general assumption that carbs are healthy (and perhaps be stricter, when you need to) but not actually worry about testing or even whether you are in ketosis. I know it would probably be defined as LCHF rather than ketogenic, but if it’s working, who cares? Certainly no-one on this forum.

If you already feel good, what are you “chasing”? You never know, whatever you might gain in the magical state of zero-carb fat adaptation, you might lose in terms of enjoyment and sustainability… I only say that to encourage you to enjoy where you are at, if it’s working for you. We are all on the same journey, as I see it: trying to figure out what macros give us the best success (and success is defined differently for everyone).

#20

Exactly, we are all different with different objectives, goals, and success criteria.

Trying to gain the mental benefits of keto? Perhaps exogenous ketones and much higher fat will help provide those benefits, but maybe that won’t be optimal if you’re trying to burn body fat.

Higher carb count might help you feel better and perform better during weight training and HIIT due to their glycolitic nature, so consuming higher carb pre or peri workout might help there. Then, the rest of the day you can do low keto or LCHF and still get the benefits.

It’s multicriteria decision analysis and we’re trying to optimize many variables at once–this is why we must have objectives, success criteria, and ways to measure to test. Then, you get to tweak to see what works best for you. Some people say they do better on higher fat and some people say they do better on higher protein, but usually their objectives are different. At the end of the day I think we are all working to be metabolically healthy, and from the research I have done I believe LCHF/keto is the best way for me to achieve that.