60g of carbs and still in keto?

(Bob M) #21

I usually don’t worry too much about onions, though I also have them infrequently. They don’t cause any cravings for me, and I didn’t get fat eating them. Plus, there are only so many onions I can eat, and then I don’t want more.

#22

Very possible, people who are very physically active don’t have to stick at or near the 20g number. There’s nothing official or written in stone about the 20g thing, it’s just a safe number for most.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #23

The story I heard, when I first joined these forums, was that the Dudes really wanted to advise zero carbs, but were afraid they’d scare too many people off. So they settled on 20 g/day as a limit that would guarantee that virtually everyone got into ketosis.

#24

Dr. Westman has been using 20g total carbs since early 2000s, taken from his observation of Dr. Atkins’ work. They were seeing very metabolically unhealthy individuals, so the 20g total was a good arbitrary starting point to ensure their methodology worked almost all of the time.

#25

I don’t know the answer. I do remember reading years ago that roasting veggies increase their glycemic index a lot. Nowadays I almost only eat them raw just in case.

Your post made me curious. I’ll test my BG after same veggies: cooked and uncooked versions as soon as I have the time.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #26

This conversation reminds me of something @PaulL reiterates from time to time. The rationalizations of an alcoholic trying to cure his alcoholism without actually reducing his alcohol intake.

In my opinion ketosis is the normal, natural and healthy metabolic state for humans to live in and thrive. The more consistently you maintain ketosis, the healthier you will be. Looking for excuses not to be or risk not being consistently in ketosis, ie ‘carbs enable this or that’, ‘veggies are good for’…, are counter productive. Just make the commitment and do it. You’ll be better off in the long run. You can get away with a lot of bad choices into your 40s and 50s. But they will catch up to you in your 60s and 70s.

#27

I find that I am one of the lucky ones that can under the right conditions.

If I do a fasted strength training session and consume a protein shake with 1-2 tbls of dextrose (~28g of carb) while eating 30g of net carb in my two meals during the day, I can stay in ketosis for most of the day.

I haven’t tried to eat that much carb outside of workouts and measured so not sure if I could say the same then.

How long before a "whoosh"?
(Bob M) #28

That would be an interesting test.

My guess: There will be no difference. I’ve tested fresh salsa, popcorn, and other vegetables and got zero blood sugar rise.

Personally, I try to eat cooked vegetables, as this supposedly reduces their anti-nutrient content, and I do seem to have a better reaction to them.

I will eat a salad sometimes, but if I eat too many salads too quickly, I get IBS, constipation, and other negative effects.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #29

Possibility. Cooking vegetables results in some degree of ‘caramelization’. In other words, cooking converts some of the less digestible starch into more digestible starch. With some veggies - I would suspect onions - some of the starch could be converted to glucose.

There is actually an hypothesis that our Pleistocene ancestors dug up roots - eg the Hazda - and roasted them to make the starch more digestible. @amber demolishes this idea here. Not the roasting part, that actually works - she demolishes the claim that our ancestors bothered to do it.

(Bob M) #30

In the 1+ years I wore my CGM, I never saw a blood sugar rise from vegetables (or meat). Even popcorn, where I expected a blood sugar rise, I got none. Not onions, nothing.

With human variability, that’s most assuredly not true. For instance, here are two different people with completely different results to the same food:

image

But for me, the (few) vegetables I ate did not cause blood sugar excursions.

As for cooked versus not cooked, the same vegetable cooked (or well cooked) does not cause me the same issues as does a raw version. The main example are bell peppers. I can eat a lot of them if well cooked, say blanched, then cooked in the oven as part of stuffed peppers. But raw, they are difficult.