6 weeks into Stronglifts 5x5, no change in BF%

bodycomposition
stronglifts
(Alex Dipego) #8

Personally I never lose weight during a strength phase as it somewhat defeats the purpose of strength. What I do do is notice I’m eating a lot more and often but not gaining weight.

You could feasibly lose weight during strength but unless you start metabolically sound where you have a good BMR then you’re spitting in the wind. If your BMR is low then cutting just slows metabolism. Revving up your BMR will allow you to make small cuts and lose.

When in strength I’m pushing 3500-4000 3-4 days a week. My BMR is 2800 yet I’m not gaining. So I know cutting to 3000 I’ll lose some fat.

Most measuring tools are bad at measuring fat. A 7 point caliper test helps though can have user error. By you noticing physical changes in your body there is some change in LBM which means a change in BF%. Honestly the images are more telling than the scale.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #9

To be clear, I’m not expecting to lose weight while doing resistance training. What I find odd is the apparent lack of change in BF%, since I’m fairly certain that I have had changes in body composition.

Do you mean that’s what you estimate you’re burning? Or what you’re consuming?

I think I’ve finally reached a point where the workout is getting more challenging. Came close to missing a rep or two on the OHP, and the squats (135 lbs) were significantly harder, though I didn’t seem to be in danger of missing any on that exercise. While I don’t want to go overboard with protein, I think I might want to bump up my caloric intake a bit overall to make sure I’ve got enough raw materials for the body to work with. As the challenge continues to ramp up, I don’t want to risk injuring myself because I’m not giving my body what it needs to repair between workouts.

(Alex Dipego) #10

You most likely have bf% change and loss. There are many things that can happen to change this number. I can swing my % by 3-5 points by manipulating water. You may know how much you’re drinking but what are you holding? Strength training holds more fluids and with a increase need for ATP in this phase the body tends to hold the water it needs to make more.

I’m consuming that much food. And without weight gain with a BMR of 2800 I’m roughly burning 700-1000 calories ontop of my daily.

I’m 5’8" (68") and 170lbs. My protein doesn’t ever go above 150. That’s my absolute highest I’m at now. My fat does hit 300+ sometimes. I average 250 minimum of fat and average 100-115 in protein. But I’m only that high in strength phase. I try to cut my protein down in other phases unless its hypertrophy where I’ll up it slightly. Reason is due to repair.

I honestly think your way of determining bf% is possibly screwed and not an effective way to accurately see change when you physically see it. You may need to find another means, or different numbers to focus. I’ll measure my body in general from biceps, shoulder, chest, calf and waist just to see change on a small scale knowing .25-.75" is probably off due to my individual changes from energy, water and inflammation.

(Omar Newsome) #11

Basically restating what @BillJay said that at the beginning of any resistance training venture you’re going to have a period of time where “strength gains” seem to be exponential, but most of that is “unlocking” the strength the capacity of current muscle fibers. Basically telling your CNS to wake them boys up and get them to work, especially with a mostly strength centered program like SL5x5. I don’t know the protocol that well, but in 5/3/1 it calls for accessory work and one choice is BBB (boring but big) which is more hypertrophy oriented to help build a larger base for strength by building bigger muscles (more fibers). Newer lifters on that program seem to (just by opinions) see more recomposition improvement because of the specific hypertrophy work taking advantage of what’s called “newb gains” where you’re that sweet spot of BF where you can burn fat and build lean mass almost simultaneously. Just my $0.02.

(Tom) #12

I have a scale with the impedance function. It didn’t show a change in my body composition even after losing 70 lbs. There’s a lot of factors like hydration (and I hypothesize, thickness of calluses) that can affect the readings. To paraphrase a salty old instructor of mine, I wouldn’t p*ss hard for an impedance body fat measurement. :smile:
I know dexa scans are spendy, but a trainer who is experiences with skin calipers could give you a more reasonably priced data point to use.

(Louise ) #13

@devhammer I had the same issue with my Aria scales not showing any changes in body fat which was causing me truckloads of grief and anxiety. What I understand is the impedance doesn’t work for keto types as there is issue with how we regulate electrolytes and water. When the current passes through us, it creates a false reading. I know this after getting a DEXA and being able to compare the readings between the scales (36% BF) and DEXA (24%). This was a huge error and relief.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #14

Thanks, Louise.

Yeah, at this point I’m pretty sure the scale BF number is useless.

Will probably do a DEXA at some point, but for now it’s KCKO as usual. :grinning:

(Christopher John Howson) #15

I did StrongLifts and progressed to Madcow 5x5 and increased all my lifts, added muscle and got leaner and stronger. These routines definitely work.

Bench 110kg
Squat 110kg
Dead 140kg
Oh press 62kg
Bent over row 75kg

I thought I needed carbs to get this far and then I found keto. I lost 17kg (on the scale) through the diet mainly, and still managed to be able to lift the same.

My body fat went from 25 to <10%

Bf and weight have remained the same ever since.

I was a moderately active person anyway, but the magic did not happen till i started Keto.

Once you start stripping fat you reveal the definition.

Weighted ab sessions are great for mid riff definition also. Good for core strength.

Add pull ups, dips and curls to your sessions once per week as per madcow protocol and you’ll be laughing.

(KB Keto) #16

Here’s my thoughts on scales and all that.

hide your scale for a month. or better yet, have someone else hide it from you. Get a measuring tape and use that. The body fat measuring system on a scale is not a good source of information. It can give you a general idea but it can also change on you everytime you step on the scaled depending on hydration levels, etc.

strength training is a great way to improve health, build strength and burn fat - dont let a scale metric deter your progress!

(G. Andrew Duthie) #17

@KBDelight

Couldn’t agree more. I do, however, want to track the trend in my weight, so while I could hide the scale, I think I may either replace it with one that doesn’t do BF%, or just train myself to ignore that useless number. :smiley:

(jilliangordona) #18

I’ve had the same issue since starting to left. I’ve seen no weight loss… and only 1-2 inches gone on my waist. However I’ve increased my weight in all of my major strength exercises (squat, deadlift, bench) and see no bf% change. I think it’s a faulty scale… I wish there was a better way to estimate!

#19

The bit to be concerned about is lower fasting BG(Blood Glucose) and lower post-prandial BG. Nothing works better or faster than getting stronger.

Once T2D(Type II diabetics) is reversed - average insulin level goes down - and the new thinking is that elevated insulin levels are likely the real cause behind CAD(coronary Artery Disease).

I started lifting when I was 59 - first result was I no longer had back problems - started squats with a bare bar - 45lb - no loss of BF until I was well past 100 – today at 62 I am still increasing - can now squat over 200. My fasting BG used to be in the upper 90s - now it is in the lower 80s…

#20

I know I am seriously late to the party, but are you still doing stronglifts?

My first observation is that your starting weights are too low to be doing musch of anything (except teaching the technique). I know that SL has those as default, but you end up not really doing much of anything for the first few weeks. For your squat it might be 6-9 (or more) weeks before you start getting challenged (i.e. It is a struggle to get through your 5 sets)

The other aspect is that 5x5 is a strength program. It’s not ideal for growing muscle (hypertrophy). It’s a good place to start, put if your aim is to lower body fat %, then you can either lower fat, or add muscle. 5x5 is not optimal for that. The lifts are in a specific range to add stregth. If you read up on the author, you will see that he started using SL because he was growing muscle (bodybuilding) but still not strong enough.

Thirdly, as others have said impedence scales are nearly worthless. Mine showed small changes. When I did DEXA scans in a lab, they came in at ~5% lower, and there had been more change.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #21

Appreciate the input.

Still doing SL. Had to take a break for about 6 weeks due to a foot injury, and have been back at it for around a month now.

I would agree that the bottom end of SL is probably too light for many folks, but it has the upside of allowing a better focus on form while not lifting too heavy. I don’t know that my form is awesome, but I think there’s merit to the idea of learning to perform the motions with the bar before starting to put too much weight into the mix. YMMV.

The other thing that I think is good about the low starting weights is that it’s not a bad thing for folks to be able to lift the weight easily, because IMO one of the most important things about any exercise program is turning it into a HABIT. That takes a few weeks minimum, and I know myself well enough that if I started missing reps in my first couple weeks because I was “getting challenged” I’d probably have found that discouraging, and might have been enough for me to give up and try something else.

Also agree that SL is a strength program, which is precisely what I’m looking for. I am not particularly interested in adding huge amounts of bulk. I want to get stronger, and it’s working. My aim is strength. If my BF% goes down as a result of that, I consider it a bonus. Not looking for washboard abs or a selfie-worthy bod. :slight_smile:

It may well be that at some point I’ll grow beyond the point where SL can continue to get me further towards my goal. If and when that happens, I’ll see what other programs may make sense.

(Zakayla) #22

I’ve been reading the replies and it’s wonderful to see the amount of information exchanged.
I’ve been working out in the gym off and on for years and the past couple of years have been more committed in my health routine.
I am a fit 38yr old. I have never had issues of being overweight however the issues of body fat % are always lingering in my mine because my idols are Pro fitness competitors. Perhaps someday I will do a fitness competition but until then my life is about keeping a healthy fit body and KCKO.

My BF% has fluctuated from 25% to as low as 15% (3-yrs ago for a fitness composition but no competition due to adrenal dysfunction, more on that on another future post)
I think on average I’m 22% BF.
I’ve been doing KETO since May 19, 2017 (33 days now). Been gaining weight (probably water and fat but I don’t care.) Logging everything. Data data data!

So those who are searching for ways to get body fat %
Unfortunately not all scales and machines are created equal so it’s nice to find all sorts ways to gather your data.
My mantra: don’t bum yourself out on the BF% because at the end of the day it’s how you feel inside not how you look on the outside.

5 Devices I have used this past year to measure body fat percentage:

  1. Measuring Tape $2
    It’s a cheap and great way to measure all sorts of areas because we store fat nearly everywhere. Measure neck, bicep (relaxed), forearm, wrist, chest, narrow waist, widest part of your waist, navel, hips, buttock, inner thighs, above the knee, calves and ankles (if you have inflammation or stored energy in the area).

  2. Skinfold Caliper $4-30+ more for digital devices

  3. Body Composition Analysis (very affordable) $10-$20 takes 5-minutes
    Example Inbody 370 Body Composition Analyzer. It’s expensive to buy one yourself since these types of machines are generally $2000-$8000 depending on make and model. I visit a modern day apothecary (EverWellRx) and paid $20 for the 1st visit & $10 each additional visit. Report shows total body water, dry lean mass, body fat mass, weight, muscle fat analysis, obesity analysis such as BMI (Body Mass Index) and PBF (Percent Body Fat), segmental lean analysis of your left arm, right arm, left leg, right leg and trunk area. Take home report also provides body composition history so every time you go you’ll have your Weight, SMM (Skeletal Muscle Mass) and PBF (Percent Body Fat). Also a great method to get your lean body mass and your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) and also it will suggest your body fat – lean body bass control what are you need to decrease or increase those two areas.

  4. Skulpt Chisel (don’t get the AIM) $99
    Great small hand held personal device you can use multiple time and can be used on more than one person in your household. Keeps records on your Skulpt App of your muscle quality and body fat percentages of each area it scans. Shoulder, chest, biceps, abs, for him, quads, upper back, triceps, lower back, glutes, hamstrings, and calves.
    Example of analysis: my muscle quality on right shoulder is 93.5 but on my left it’s 91.9. Body fat on my right abs are 7.5 and my right quads are 23.1 and right calf is 29.1.
    You can email your report and it takes your history.

Additional Uses for the Device:
A) It’s like a mini personal trainer.
Based on your goals you enter in the app (fitness level: beginner, intermediate, advanced AND your goal to get strong, get fit, or lose weight) the app provides a Comprehension Plan with a 7-day fitness guide of exercises and rest days. If you do not know how to do an exercise you click on the exercise and a short bodybuilding.com video appears in your app to show you the proper way to keep your form and execute exercise.
B) View Imbalances
The Skulpt Chisel will tell you if imbalances are detected in your body and will suggest exercises to help you recover muscle balance and symmetry throughout your body.
C) Target Training
Based on my device, it shows my three weakest muscles (quads, triceps, calves). I can select on any of the recommended exercises for each muscle.

  1. DEXA $50-$100 (calling my local facility to get accurate cost)
    Great way to view bone mineral density and internal fat stores.
    I haven’t done it yet but hopefully in the upcoming months.

devhammer
when working out think of that muscle you’re working on. Appreciate it, love it and send good energy to it. Tell it to get stronger and that you’ll feed it good food to repair it. This advice was given to me from fitness competitions (male and female). If it works for them why can’t it work for all of us.

KCKO and BACON! :bacon: [quote=“devhammer, post:14, topic:8664, full:true”]
Thanks, Louise.

Yeah, at this point I’m pretty sure the scale BF number is useless.

Will probably do a DEXA at some point, but for now it’s KCKO as usual. :grinning:
[/quote]

(Louise ) #23

I had a light bulb moment during my SL session yesterday: I got my training buddy to video me doing my squats. I needed to go deeper to get my bum level with my knees…ouch! I de-loaded and will keep to this weight for the next few sessions until the burn in my thighs and glutes recover. All I can say, again, is ouch. Video’ing on my side profile showed that while I was incrementally adding more weight, form and depth still matter.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #24

I happened to have a large mirror in my basement where I lift, so I set that up so I’m able to assess my form when I’m squatting.

I don’t quite get as low as A2G, but it does help me ensure that I get to parallel, or a little below.

The other thing that’ll get the legs burning is to go slow on the way down. I did that when I was restarting after my injury, and I was SUPER sore the next couple days.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #25

@LouiseReynolds I had my own mini-epiphany this morning, after my SL workout.

I found myself, this morning, several times trying to “get ready” with the bar on my shoulders, kind of anticipating that the squats were going to suck and be really hard. And when I actually did them, they weren’t awful, but it occurred to me that there’s definitely a mental aspect to all of this. I think sometimes we can make the lifts harder by anticipating them as being painful, rather than going in with an “I got this” attitude.

Not sure what actions one might take to test this and/or work around it, but I’m going to try some positive visualizations next workout, and see if that has any effect.

(Tim) #26

Hey Andrew,

New around here, but I actually have a ton of experience in this field so I thought I’d chime in. Apologies if this is completely off topic, as it’s really unrelated to the body fat percentage thing. But it will help you lift more heavy things, hopefully.

I’ve been olympic lifting since I was 16 and during college I did a month long training session with the guy who wrote the Stronglifts 5x5 program. I’ll try and lay out a few hang ups most people have when barbell training, especially beginners.

  1. Mobility & Flexibility - Dynamic stretching before the workout, foam rollers, lacrosse balls and muscle shearing after the workout. Your mobility work should hurt MORE than your workout. Resources for this are basically anything written or filmed by Kelly Starrett. His book ‘Becoming a Supple Leapord’ is the bible of mobility work. This will make all range of motion problems and positioning problems vanish if you work on things long enough.

  2. Failing to Fail AKA Not Lifting Heavy Enough - If you’re completing the 5th rep of the 5th set before progressing, especially if you’re doing it with perfect form, you’re progressing too slow. Adaptation comes from pushing muscles past their limits.

  3. Not Utilizing Full Range of Motion - Below parallel is like getting a D for Done. Ass to grass, every time. This is why #1 is so important. Know what the full RoM is for every exercise, and work on your mobility until you get there.

  4. Confusing Muscle Mass with Strength - The former is loosely correlated with the later, to be sure. But strength itself is much much more complex than just muscle mass. The neuro-physical, the physio-chemical, aspects of strength matter far more than people think they do. (Example, I’m fasting. I haven’t lost any muscle mass, but I am less strong) When measuring strength, just measure the amount of work you can exert on the weight, not your body fat, muscle mass or any other such number.

  5. Mobility & Flexibility - No really, devote at least half your total workout time to this. If you work out for 30 minutes, do 15 minutes minimum of mobility and flexibility work. And seriously, it should be much MUCH more painful than your actual workouts.

Anyway, hope that wasn’t too much of a rant & I hope it helps.

P.S. My first Crossfit Gym was in NoVa right near the Clarendon Metro. I think there was a little shop around back that sold headstones for graves. :slight_smile:

(Louise ) #27

Wow thanks for the extra information, will be taking on board those gems :+1:t2: