6 weeks into Stronglifts 5x5, no change in BF%

bodycomposition
stronglifts
(G. Andrew Duthie) #1

So, I’m not freaked out about this or anything, but…

I started Stronglifts 5x5 toward the end of January. I had no idea what my capacity was, so I started at the defaults (45 lbs for squat, etc.). I’ve been at it for around 6 weeks now, and have progressed to 125 lbs squat, 105 lbs barbell row, 85 lbs bench/overhead press, and 165 lbs deadlift.

I measure weight and body fat % daily, with the latter being a calculated value using impedance measured by my scale. I know that is not necessarily a precise measure, and can be affected by hydration (or lack thereof), but it should reflect broad trends reasonably well.

Thing is, it hasn’t budged at all, statistically speaking. From when I started to now, it’s been averaging 20%, with the only variation being the occasional drop to 19%, or bump to 21%.

It is conceivable to me that because I didn’t know what my lifting capacity was that I started the SL 5x5 program on the low end, and haven’t really been challenging my body enough to build up much muscle mass or affect significant recomposition, but I find it hard to believe that 6 weeks of lifting 3 times a week hasn’t produced any change at all in BF%.

FWIW, I just did a 4-day extended fast from Wednesday through Saturday, and though I dropped around 6 lbs during the fast, that also did not make any change whatsoever in the BF% reading on the scale.

I’d be interested in any thoughts from folks who’ve done consistent lifting over time, particularly those that started from fairly light weights, and especially if you’ve used a scale that estimates (perhaps approximates would be more apropos) BF% using impedance measurement.

(eat more) #2

i’m always going to blame the scale…

the fast alone should have shown a change in either direction

6 weeks is plenty of time for some recomposition even if it’s just “newbie gains”

can you pinch less than you could before?
do you feel more lean?

#3

Generally the early stages of weightlifting involve neuromuscular training and recruiting more muscle fibers to increase strength and not so much hypertrophy itself. Part of this involves extending the peripheral nervous system into muscle fibers that are not currently enervated.

In other words, muscle tissue is expensive metabolically so the body maintains as little as possible and even then only recruits the minimum required for any activity which means that most muscle tissue remains dormant until some serious stress is applied.

Starting a weightlifting program involves pushing deeper and deeper into muscle fibers and at the early stages there just isn’t enough stress to trigger hypertrophy, and then at some point, when the stress becomes high enough, there will be noticeable changes in muscle tissue.

That being said, there’s the complication of myostatin that actively discourages the body to build larger muscles and instead focuses on increasing muscle strength through satellite cells located in the muscle cell. It is a common misconception that increased muscle strength is always associated with increased muscle mass. Dr. Doug McGuff does a good job of explaining this in Body By Science.

In other words, it could take months before muscle mass changes, but as long as muscle strength is increasing, the balance between stress and recovery is good and you’re making progress.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #4

Unfortunately, I can’t really tell. I think I probably have at least some modest body dysmorphia, because I look in the mirror, and still feel as though I look similar to when I was well over 200 lbs. Some of that owes to the fact that the waistline fat is stubbornly holding on, but I think some of it is just an inability to see the progress clearly.

I’m pretty sure my legs are more muscular, and I can definitely see a difference in my arms both in tone and size, so that’s part of why I too think the scale may be lying. But I’ve been using this scale for years, and have seen it vary by a much wider margin at times.

Just frustrating, because I’d like to believe that the scale can give me some modicum of useful data on BF even if imprecise. I’m not prepared to spend the money on a DEXA scan (nor, for that matter, do I want to subject myself to radiation other than for serious medical need), and other means, for example calipers, seem like they’d be similarly subject to margin of error.

All that said, I’m comfortable that I’m doing the right things, both in terms of what I eat, and my workouts, so I will just KCKO and KCKWO (Keep Calm Keep Working Out). :smiley:

(eat more) #5

me too…even when it’s in the right direction like feeling more lean and then dismissing it like “nah you’re still the same that’s just what you want to believe” ugh :roll_eyes:

beautiful!
i’ve mostly given up on “numbers”…i love numbers dangit!..numbers are “real” but…all of our tools are flawed and can’t be trusted :joy:

(G. Andrew Duthie) #6

Yep. I’m a data guy, hence the obsessing over this particular topic. I have the same frustration with the fact that there’s no reasonable and affordable way to regularly test insulin levels, which seems like it’d be much better than testing glucose and ketones as a proxy for what’s happening with insulin.

But in the meantime, I do have the numbers for my progress in SL 5x5, which are very encouraging. And with softball season rapidly approaching, I’ll have an opportunity to see whether that progress translates into real-world advantages. :wink:

(eat more) #7

that’ll be fun!
your teammates and opponents will be like “did he get a coach and why is he so dang fast?” lol

(Alex Dipego) #8

Personally I never lose weight during a strength phase as it somewhat defeats the purpose of strength. What I do do is notice I’m eating a lot more and often but not gaining weight.

You could feasibly lose weight during strength but unless you start metabolically sound where you have a good BMR then you’re spitting in the wind. If your BMR is low then cutting just slows metabolism. Revving up your BMR will allow you to make small cuts and lose.

When in strength I’m pushing 3500-4000 3-4 days a week. My BMR is 2800 yet I’m not gaining. So I know cutting to 3000 I’ll lose some fat.

Most measuring tools are bad at measuring fat. A 7 point caliper test helps though can have user error. By you noticing physical changes in your body there is some change in LBM which means a change in BF%. Honestly the images are more telling than the scale.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #9

To be clear, I’m not expecting to lose weight while doing resistance training. What I find odd is the apparent lack of change in BF%, since I’m fairly certain that I have had changes in body composition.

Do you mean that’s what you estimate you’re burning? Or what you’re consuming?

I think I’ve finally reached a point where the workout is getting more challenging. Came close to missing a rep or two on the OHP, and the squats (135 lbs) were significantly harder, though I didn’t seem to be in danger of missing any on that exercise. While I don’t want to go overboard with protein, I think I might want to bump up my caloric intake a bit overall to make sure I’ve got enough raw materials for the body to work with. As the challenge continues to ramp up, I don’t want to risk injuring myself because I’m not giving my body what it needs to repair between workouts.

(Alex Dipego) #10

You most likely have bf% change and loss. There are many things that can happen to change this number. I can swing my % by 3-5 points by manipulating water. You may know how much you’re drinking but what are you holding? Strength training holds more fluids and with a increase need for ATP in this phase the body tends to hold the water it needs to make more.

I’m consuming that much food. And without weight gain with a BMR of 2800 I’m roughly burning 700-1000 calories ontop of my daily.

I’m 5’8" (68") and 170lbs. My protein doesn’t ever go above 150. That’s my absolute highest I’m at now. My fat does hit 300+ sometimes. I average 250 minimum of fat and average 100-115 in protein. But I’m only that high in strength phase. I try to cut my protein down in other phases unless its hypertrophy where I’ll up it slightly. Reason is due to repair.

I honestly think your way of determining bf% is possibly screwed and not an effective way to accurately see change when you physically see it. You may need to find another means, or different numbers to focus. I’ll measure my body in general from biceps, shoulder, chest, calf and waist just to see change on a small scale knowing .25-.75" is probably off due to my individual changes from energy, water and inflammation.

(Omar Newsome) #11

Basically restating what @BillJay said that at the beginning of any resistance training venture you’re going to have a period of time where “strength gains” seem to be exponential, but most of that is “unlocking” the strength the capacity of current muscle fibers. Basically telling your CNS to wake them boys up and get them to work, especially with a mostly strength centered program like SL5x5. I don’t know the protocol that well, but in 5/3/1 it calls for accessory work and one choice is BBB (boring but big) which is more hypertrophy oriented to help build a larger base for strength by building bigger muscles (more fibers). Newer lifters on that program seem to (just by opinions) see more recomposition improvement because of the specific hypertrophy work taking advantage of what’s called “newb gains” where you’re that sweet spot of BF where you can burn fat and build lean mass almost simultaneously. Just my $0.02.

(Tom) #12

I have a scale with the impedance function. It didn’t show a change in my body composition even after losing 70 lbs. There’s a lot of factors like hydration (and I hypothesize, thickness of calluses) that can affect the readings. To paraphrase a salty old instructor of mine, I wouldn’t p*ss hard for an impedance body fat measurement. :smile:
I know dexa scans are spendy, but a trainer who is experiences with skin calipers could give you a more reasonably priced data point to use.

(Louise ) #13

@devhammer I had the same issue with my Aria scales not showing any changes in body fat which was causing me truckloads of grief and anxiety. What I understand is the impedance doesn’t work for keto types as there is issue with how we regulate electrolytes and water. When the current passes through us, it creates a false reading. I know this after getting a DEXA and being able to compare the readings between the scales (36% BF) and DEXA (24%). This was a huge error and relief.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #14

Thanks, Louise.

Yeah, at this point I’m pretty sure the scale BF number is useless.

Will probably do a DEXA at some point, but for now it’s KCKO as usual. :grinning:

(Christopher John Howson) #15

I did StrongLifts and progressed to Madcow 5x5 and increased all my lifts, added muscle and got leaner and stronger. These routines definitely work.

Bench 110kg
Squat 110kg
Dead 140kg
Oh press 62kg
Bent over row 75kg

I thought I needed carbs to get this far and then I found keto. I lost 17kg (on the scale) through the diet mainly, and still managed to be able to lift the same.

My body fat went from 25 to <10%

Bf and weight have remained the same ever since.

I was a moderately active person anyway, but the magic did not happen till i started Keto.

Once you start stripping fat you reveal the definition.

Weighted ab sessions are great for mid riff definition also. Good for core strength.

Add pull ups, dips and curls to your sessions once per week as per madcow protocol and you’ll be laughing.

(KB Keto) #16

Here’s my thoughts on scales and all that.

hide your scale for a month. or better yet, have someone else hide it from you. Get a measuring tape and use that. The body fat measuring system on a scale is not a good source of information. It can give you a general idea but it can also change on you everytime you step on the scaled depending on hydration levels, etc.

strength training is a great way to improve health, build strength and burn fat - dont let a scale metric deter your progress!

(G. Andrew Duthie) #17

@KBDelight

Couldn’t agree more. I do, however, want to track the trend in my weight, so while I could hide the scale, I think I may either replace it with one that doesn’t do BF%, or just train myself to ignore that useless number. :smiley:

(jilliangordona) #18

I’ve had the same issue since starting to left. I’ve seen no weight loss… and only 1-2 inches gone on my waist. However I’ve increased my weight in all of my major strength exercises (squat, deadlift, bench) and see no bf% change. I think it’s a faulty scale… I wish there was a better way to estimate!

#19

The bit to be concerned about is lower fasting BG(Blood Glucose) and lower post-prandial BG. Nothing works better or faster than getting stronger.

Once T2D(Type II diabetics) is reversed - average insulin level goes down - and the new thinking is that elevated insulin levels are likely the real cause behind CAD(coronary Artery Disease).

I started lifting when I was 59 - first result was I no longer had back problems - started squats with a bare bar - 45lb - no loss of BF until I was well past 100 – today at 62 I am still increasing - can now squat over 200. My fasting BG used to be in the upper 90s - now it is in the lower 80s…

#20

I know I am seriously late to the party, but are you still doing stronglifts?

My first observation is that your starting weights are too low to be doing musch of anything (except teaching the technique). I know that SL has those as default, but you end up not really doing much of anything for the first few weeks. For your squat it might be 6-9 (or more) weeks before you start getting challenged (i.e. It is a struggle to get through your 5 sets)

The other aspect is that 5x5 is a strength program. It’s not ideal for growing muscle (hypertrophy). It’s a good place to start, put if your aim is to lower body fat %, then you can either lower fat, or add muscle. 5x5 is not optimal for that. The lifts are in a specific range to add stregth. If you read up on the author, you will see that he started using SL because he was growing muscle (bodybuilding) but still not strong enough.

Thirdly, as others have said impedence scales are nearly worthless. Mine showed small changes. When I did DEXA scans in a lab, they came in at ~5% lower, and there had been more change.