5am and I have been crying for an hour


(Liz Santiago) #1

I don’t know what else to do. I have been on keto (in January) for 2 years and I lost 60 pound the first 6 months then over the next year another 20, but since June I have been stuck in the same weight 210 to 212, losing and gaining those pounds. I started recently checking my glucose and testing foods to see if there is anything I am doing wrong. Anyway, I started using some BHB supplement, and this week I tried intermittent fasting. Wednesday morning at 4am I was 210.9 pounds I did the fasting all day and Thursday. I only ate salmon, lettuce with cheese some bits of bacon and ranch plus cauliflower made with garlic and butter for dinner with a cup of rebel ice cream both days. Today, I weighted myself and when I saw that I was 212.9 I started crying non stop for the past hour. I don’t understand, I am trying so hard. A friend suggested to stop keto but I am afraid of doing that. :sob:


#2

Hi Liz,

It’s crappy when we’ve tried so hard and don’t get the results we want/deserve. Well done on the previous weight loss, that’s impressive!

I’m not expert and I’m a newbie but this what I’d do:

  1. Stand up, dust yourself down and smile.
  2. Bin the Rebel Ice Cream.
  3. Don’t give up.

It’ll work and your day will get better! X


(Michael) #3

Your friend may mean well, but stopping keto will make it worse, not fix the problem. Assuming your metabolism is not broken, Time restricted eating or fasting is the right answer to kick start your fat burning. The key to fasting is eating enough to keep your metabolic rate high enough. Meaning wait longer to eat, and eat more when you do eat before waiting long time to eat again. If you are able, a multi day fast to start is perfect with TRE to follow up. If your metabolism is destroyed from long term calorie restriction, you will need to fix that first by eating more than you have which may seem counter intuitive. How many calories do you normally eat on a day?


#4

2 days is nothing, I saw worse from my body I think… I did carnivore and didn’t even overate fat and absolutely nothing. I put WAY more effort into it than when I lost fat weighing as much as I do now and nothing :slight_smile: It’s good I am super patient after very many years of stalling, I never lost on keto so it only could be worse if I gained on it but I never did that either.
Okay, I never was over 200lbs but still, it can be annoying after YEARS of effort, experimenting and tracking too (to get information and figure out what could be the problem).

It’s… Complicated. Human body and losing fat? We can’t fully understand it.

You do whatever seems right and wait for the result? Maybe tweaking things (no rebel ice cream, for example. I don’t even know what is in it but it seems like something potentially sabotage the fat-loss of some unlucky ones).

Even going carnivore doesn’t necessarily bring fat-loss, ask the carnivores. I never lost on it except when it was an early time and my body was so confused I barely ate from my viewpoint. But I never did it long term and didn’t eat as much meat as now and who knows, maybe that helps :smiley:

And then… I started to lose. I lost 3kg somehow in the last several weeks. I am less active due to weather and stress induced sleep problems, I have many off times with way more carbs than usual… I overeat both fat and protein regularly… And I am losing. I don’t get it but I don’t complain. And my body is the type that loses fat according to calories, apparently. Though there are odd times when I doubt it. Like now but I can’t track all the time, it’s highly inaccurate anyway as I eat fatty meat where I don’t know the fat content and as my last fat-loss was years before, I couldn’t possibly know my energy need anyway… I just try to eat well and in a convenient, chill way, some joy is needed, I never go hungry or even unsatiated for long if I can do something about it…

But even when I lost fat at a cute pace, it was pretty slow. I need a woe I enjoy and where I can forget about fat-loss as it takes a LONG time to lose even a little fat for me. Some carnivores do the same and they lose 1 lbs here and there but super slowly. Others do it quickly and they slim down completely at a wonderful speed but don’t think about them :smiley: I know that my “effort in vain” (at least fat-loss wise) for many, many years isn’t the worst, some people have it way worse. It’s comforting though I feel sorry for the ones who eat little and gain fat, for example. I eat much (or enough) and good food, at least.
Of course, if one has more to lose, so much that it’s a serious health thing, not mostly aesthetical, it should go quicker and I understand one is more impatient then, I would be that too, things feel more unfair too… But it’s not always that easy even in that case, unfortunately.

I just can to wish you good luck and patience…

What would quitting keto help I wonder… What does your friend think about that?
It’s easy for me, I have no doubts I CAN’T even do off-keto for long :smiley: My body screams bloody murder at some point and what would I eat anyway, plants? :smiley: (I do eat plants but very little and it’s perfect.) But keto isn’t ideal for everyone. Still, some people do a wrong, unsuccessful keto while keto is totally for them just differently. Some of us need to experiment for years to figure out our sweet spot… I never lost any fat on my original keto (except maybe on my OMAD week… I had carby days there in the beginning but nothing helps as much with starting OMAD than a big, carby meal in my case) and I know it was not just because I ate much carbs (still low enough for ketosis and fat adaptation but carbs messed with me, even those not so numerous ones). I know plenty of items going against my fat-loss and chill. It’s about calories there but still, I need to avoid or minimize them to have a chance! Other people say it’s different for them, they still need to avoid sweeteners, dairy or other things because they sabotage fat-loss and they may cause health or behaviour problems too…

So yes, effort and success aren’t necessarily correlated, it bothered me often in the last years too… Not very much, I know life is unfair and things doesn’t necessarily follow my logic but yes, it’s tiring when you change SO MUCH and in the right direction and things don’t improve despite all the effort you put in. And maybe you get results without much effort in the past but apparently, the current you isn’t old you, something changed.
Persevere! It’s important. And change some things. I am not sure OMAD is the right way for you but I know very little about you. Hopefully you have some idea what you should do or can try…

How much did you eat? Too little is a problem too, it may be even fat-loss wise. But it doesn’t matter what fat-loss does when it’s undereating, it’s unhealthy and causes various problems. Not in 2 days, though.
2 days is little time, the bodyweight can fluctuate way more than the teeny-winy, probably not even measurable amount of fat one may lose under normal circumstances (if one runs an ultramarathon during the time, that’s a different story. and quite unhealthy but priorities of ultramarathoners are weird when competing).

Maybe you shouldn’t weigh yourself or just once every week… month… year… But maybe never, I use my borderline tight pants now, more reliable than my scale.


#5

it does actually as I can attest and so can many other carnivores :slight_smile:

now key being at some point all of us on any darn plan hit a ‘set point’ in our body changes and it is key to adapt our eating to cover that for alot of us. Some don’t have to do it, others do. Most who do are ones who ‘creep’ back in the crappier food from their plan eating list kinda. If one stays clean, on plan and committed and eats as the body is asking in good form, most of us continue our journey easily vs. another who starts to struggle. But another key is who are we on this lifestyle change. We all react different, let the crappier food in a tad too much for some of us, and then might be lower our activity or have work stress and more so A TON goes into a ‘healthy eating plan change’ that works for each of us on any plan we choose to handle.

Just a chat on that and how it goes down for alot of us. There is no straight line of instant weight loss for longer term for any eating plan change out there :slight_smile: this is just saying that carnis lose if the plan and some common sense and more is tackled while doing this zc plan.
again, just a general chat on it from a carnivore point of view and stats on how well people are doing on the plan with the efforts we give it.

Just know you are OK :slight_smile: :slight_smile: Been there JUST LIKE you and I feel the frustration big time!!

You must go basic keto again on real food. dump the keto ice cream, living on lettuce and fish…think heavy meat protein and big good fats now. Pair up with lowest GI index carb veg you enjoy and be sure to keep the meat proteins full on and keep the good fats coming :slight_smile:

You need a ‘reset’ back to basics. Your body is know a tad ‘out of whack’ from how well you were doing cause your eating has changed since ya tackled this plan 2 yrs ago.

So best recommendation and ‘this could take a bit of time’ to ‘reset’ yourself is eat great meat/fat and watch every other thing you eat in that don’t go ‘keto crappier’ with food ya know. Meat, good meat fats and good veg that suits you well. Keep it super simple and super clean but be SURE to eat well at all times. When hungry at all if you want a little something, nosh on some bacon :slight_smile:

Sometimes the journey is alot longer for a bunch of us and key being staying on a ‘clean eating plan’ and back to basics will work for all of us. I am carnivore and when a tiny bit of crap started to draw me back, like a little dark chocolate, or a bit too many bites of other carby crap I knew one thing. Back to extreme basics and real food and every time it reset me back on plan and the lbs came off again and I just felt tons better in my well being so…best advice I can send forward to you :slight_smile:

Hang in there. So many of us had to walk this situation. Key is back to clean eating, eat all you need, get that body repairing and healing well again and forward ya go :sunny:


#6

I mean immediate, quick one, did I left it out? I did, my bad!


#7

oh cool @Shinita, I get ya on that. Yes many who need to lose more can lose faster obviously like we all do when we eat cleaner, but after that most of us have to ‘hold the darn plan’ long term, well lifestyle change of good fine clean eating’ to hit our best health and truths for each of us.


(Robin) #8

Liz, is your current weight one that (aside from your heaviest) you used to be able to maintain and feel good about?

The reason I ask…. Years ago I weighed 250 (I’m 5’7”) and lost it by starvation and exercise. I ended up at 180 and looked and felt great.
I stayed there for years, but had to work at it. And eventually failed.

2 1/2 years ago, I was fat again at 215 and began keto that day. My goal weight was 180 because it felt reasonable and do-able.

So… after some months of keto, sure enough I landed on 180. Once again, I looked and felt great… and I wasn’t having to ”work” at it. Just kept up my strict keto.
I stayed very close to 180 for many many months and decided that must be my body’s natural set point. So I just cruised along on keto and 180.

After what seemed like forever, the weight started slowly but steadily dropping again, and my body shape started changing. I got a waist and lost my love handles. Eventually I got to 165, much to my surprise and stayed there for a long time.

In the last year I’ve lost another 15 pounds… about a pound a month. I’m currently at a shocking 151 and do not work at it. I now have only one or two meals a day and I never eat after 6pm. (Night time eating is my kryptonite.) I don’t exercise except for walking the dog. I walked away from the scales. They only messed with my head.

I feel your frustration and hopelessness. Been there. But I would not do anything drastic. I would confirm that my carbs are under 20g and keep on trucking.

Thanks for the honest post. Most of us have been there. Hang in there.
You got this!


#9

fab post Robin.
You got yrs holding that starvation goal menu. I got like 8-9 months before I gained all back!

So many of us are you in what you wrote but doing nothing dramatic is key in what ya said. Just stay on plan and eat clean and ‘wait’ for changes and they will come, and never on our timeline we want LOL but in the end, you wrote a great post I can so relate to my total core!


(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #10

I’m sorry you and your body are having a disagreement about how much to weigh.

Dr. Phinney said in an interview on the 2 Keto Dudes podcast that in their research he and Prof. Volek have seen typical fat losses of about 20% of starting weight. The body then seems to settle at the new weight for some time, but later it may start losing again, as Robin’s experience shows. But the body seems to need time at a given rest point before continuing on. The key is to keep calm and keto on.

For what it’s worth, Dr. Phinney also says, in his lectures on troubleshooting a ketogenic diet, that when people feel stuck, the first thing they should try is to eat less carbohydrate. The second thing to try is to eat more fat. Under no circumstances, he says, should people eat more carbohydrate.

Experience on these forums (backed up by some research) shows that while cutting calories can sometimes be a useful lever, it is generally an unworkable strategy over the long term, because the body cuts its metabolic rate over time to compensate for the reduced food intake (this is a reasonable response to famine conditions). But the body can also raise the metabolic rate to cope with higher intake, which means that the amount of calories we eat is not always as much of a concern as it is made out to be. There have actually been studies in which people have lost fat at caloric intakes of 3000-5000 calories a day. This is not to say that it’s possible for everyone, merely that caloric intake is not the whole story.


(Laurie) #11

Sorry you’re feeling so bad, Liz! Can you tweak your intake a bit? In the example, you gave, I see some “extras,” including ranch dressing and ice cream. The salmon is lost among all the other items.

I know we want to add tasty things to make the meal seem more interesting or normal. But in my opinion, these should be used sparingly.

Maybe concentrate more on the basics (real food), including more meat. Good luck.


#12

Cutting calories always worked very well in my family. No wonder, this is how we normal people we lose fat :slight_smile: It obviously can’t be a BIG cut (whatever it means, it varies) because that’s starvation and it lowers our metabolism and causes other problems. A proper sized deficit is the way. But it’s more complicated for others and most people have no idea about their CO anyway, obviously. Never trust calculators and even less those super idiotic general things (like women must eat 1200 kcal. I lost fat eating 2000 as a not active short woman as my metabolism was fine and I didn’t want to lose 2 kg a week either… Not like 1200 could give it to me, it would have merely ruined me. But I am smarter and more hedonistic than that. 2000 kcal is super tiny food anyway compared to what I was used to. It’s still so very little to me… May be possible but well, more like one proper meal than two.)

Sorry I got carried away a tiny bit. I just don’t get why people think that our body is stupid enough to ruin our metabolism just because we eat a LITTLE less while we have plenty of fat. A healthy body just loses the fat in that case and the metabolism and bodily functions work nicely. My family experiences always showed that. It’s a very, very rare thing when the body considers famine if it gets a tiny bit less food that it uses normally. People could mess up things too easily so I am very glad we doesn’t work that way. I feel very sorry for everyone who is.

Of course, I am against forcing eating less than what feels still okay.
And I am against eating only until satiation if it causes starvation too. We don’t always feel when is enough for the body, it’s very possible starving on keto while being satiated/full all the time just like it’s very easy to be hungry a lot while overeating or never never losing fat due to too much food when we just satiate our hunger.
These signs don’t always work correctly. Hopefully they get better eventually but certain items can mess things up anyway I suppose. After many years on low-carb (with very, very rare carbier days) I still automatically overeat if I am not careful. Not always, I have easy satiation carni days, thankfully but quite frequently. Just waiting for success? Never would happen.

Or if very long term calorie reduction is a problem, one may have higher-cal days. My body always demanded them and I forgot I had them but I always did. My SO didn’t have that, he just slimmed down easily (with hunger but smoothly). But for either of us, there was a noticeable deficit. We are simple, barely anything has the power to sabotage fat-loss all alone. Well, in a way that we notice but negligible amounts don’t matter. I am sure the human body is super difficult, even ours. We just need the basic info to reach our goals.


(Edith) #13

Hi @liz_santiago, I’m sorry to hear your are having such a tough time. I was wondering if you could share your age? If you are heading into perimenopause or menopause itself, those hormonal changes may have a lot to do with your stall. If not, it’s also possible your body has found a comfortable place to perform some sort of maintenance and healing where you are and that the weight loss could pick up again in the not too distant future.

I am heading into menopause after a looonnnngggg perimenopause. I recently read that as a woman’s estrogen levels drop, her body finds that stressful and it can increase cortisol levels. This is something I am definitely experiencing. I find that a feeling of anxiety is always bubbling under the surface. I think I had been brushing it aside and pretending it wasn’t there for a long time, but it is.

I only made this realization last weekend so I have started changing my mindset and my actions to try to get the feeling of anxiety down and achieve more times when I feel calm and content. I have a dog that I walk. Instead of rushing to get the walk over with, I am taking my time and just enjoying being outside. Just that little change in my attitude towards walking the dog has helped. If I start getting stressed about something challenging at work, I pause and take deep breaths until I calm down. If I wake up at night anxious about all the things I have to do, instead of stressing that I can’t sleep, I’ve been popping in the earbuds and listening to a podcast on low. The quiet murmuring of the voices lulls me back to sleep. It’s been less than a week, but I am actually feeling a little calmer.

My weight has crept up a few pounds over the past few years: Covid, going back to work full-time, and hormonal changes have not helped with stress, and I do think the stress has something to do with it.

How are your stress levels, quality of sleep, etc? Problems with stress and sleep can definitely have an effect on weight loss.


(Robin) #14

Ooh, good point, VE!
Hormones!


(Liz Santiago) #15

Yes, but I ate 2 days ice cream because I had not eaten any kind of dessert since June and somebody told me about Rebel and wanted to try it. I thought ranch was keto


(Liz Santiago) #16

I am 51 and because of me not losing weight even when I used Mounjaro or Trulicity, my doctor checked all hormones including cortisol and everything was great.


(Laurie) #17

Sure, ranch is keto and all kinds of things are keto.

But I see lots of people (and I’ve done it myself) filling up on lots of “keto” extras, instead of filling up on meat and greens (and even the greens are optional, in my opinion).

Just something to consider.


(Liz Santiago) #18

My problem with calories is that I cook all my food and I don’t know how much calories I am eating; however, I usually eat breakfast and dinner but I have also eaten only dinner and it does not make a difference. I tried using myfitnesspal but I gave up trying to find the things I eat and how different options of the same thing are in the app.


(Liz Santiago) #19

Thanks! the least I have been is 180 and I feel fine at 212 but I am 51 and I don’t want to keep getting older and having even more trouble getting to a better weight but with everything hanging from everywhere.


#20

So you’re tracking your macros that you eat daily?