500 calorie diet vs 5 day fast

#1

hello, i’m looking to lose some fat. what’s better, 500 calories (protein shakes and vegetable-fruit juice) or fasting for 5 days? i find both to be very easy for me. way way easier than the classic 1500-1800 calorie diet. since it’s way faster and it’s not as painful. i’m currently 184 cm 70kg. which one of the 2 will make me lose the least muscle? (i’m thinking the 500 calorie one because i will be getting some proteins for my muscles form the shakes). also will working out during this help? i’ve heard people say that it helps because your body will not lose it’s muscle because it’s being used. PLEASE IF POSSIBLE BACKUP WHAT YOU SAY WITH A MEDICAL STUDY

#2

The search function is really good on the forum. I would suggest plugging in a few of your questions in there to see what comes up as well as posting directly. That way you should get lots of ideas. The forum is also arranged well into categories so you can browse areas of interest.

(Bob M) #3

The problem with studies is that they are terrified of actual fasting. That’s why there are “fasting mimicking diets” and high protein low cal diets. They’re convinced you’ll die if you fast.

Personally, I either fast or eat until I’m full. The idea of eating one meal a day and keeping to 500 cals requires more willpower than I have. And since I’ve done many 3-5.5 day fasts, I have some willpower, just not enough to limit myself to 500 cals.

(Doug) #4

SO true - it’s practically impossible to get funding to study fasting humans.

(bulkbiker) #5

Probably because the only people to benefit would be the fasting humans!

(KetoQ) #6

Hi DatBoi –

If you do 500 calories for five days or fast for five days …

The short answer is – and this is because you are only doing it for five days – it really doesn’t matter. You’re essentially doing a crash diet. In that case, you should do the one that is easier for you to do. You can lose some weight with either approach, which may have similar effectiveness. With respect to muscle loss, any loss via either approach is going to be rather negligible, and probably very comparable as well, because it is so short term, five days.

Now, fasting vs. calorie restriction – long term, or as a lifestyle – is a totally different discussion.

First, understand there is a distinction between losing weight and losing fat. You can lose weight (mostly water) and fat (just a little) with either approach. When you do short term calorie restriction or fasting you’re going to deplete glycogen stores which store carbs as water – four molecules of water for every molecule of carbs. Hence the quick weight loss results. The key here is you will primarily experience weight loss, not fat loss.

The problem is, as soon as you complete the diet or fast, and eat a high carb meal, you’re going to replenish those glycogen stores and gain the weight right back. Most of the loss you experienced will be water, not fat, as your body is used to burning sugar/carbs/glycogen instead of running off your body fat.

To run off your body fat, you have to become “fat adapted.” That’s another discussion.

I guess the follow up question is it depends upon why you want to lose the weight. If it is for an event that you want to lose a few pounds to look good, again, either approach is ok. But if you are looking for true long term fat loss and other health benefits, you should not do the calorie restriction, because you will lower your metabolism, and it will be harder for your body to burn more calories in the future.

Think about a low carb lifestyle with intermittent fasting.

As far as the science, I’ve read a ton of stuff, so you’re going to have to invest the time to look it up yourself. But it’s worth it if you want to control weight, build muscle and live a healthier life.

Good luck,
Q

#7

i mean, i just care about not losing muscle and losing fat. i have the will power

(Doug) #8

Welcome to the forum, DatBoi. :slightly_smiling_face:

If you can fast for 5 days very easily, then there are significant benefits to that, beyond what you get restricting calories to ~500. The body’s hormonal response to fasting is quite a bit different, and better for burning fat.

Losing lean mass is often taken as meaning “losing mucle,” but that is not necessarily true, not at all. With fasting, autophagy eventually kicks in, and the body recycles proteins - including stuff that really needs to be gone, like old/faulty/damaged cellular parts. Our skin is “lean mass,” and it’s roughly 1/6 of our weight. Weight loss and fasting often mean a reduction in skin, again - not losing muscle.

Calorie restriction eventually leads to a reduction in metabolism - not a good thing for most of us, and it certainly works against losing weight and burning fat. I don’t think restricting for 5 days does it, nor with even with a few cycles of that, but we do know that 5 or 6 months of it will do it, as with ‘Minnesota Starvation Experiment.’ Fasting gives an average of 13% higher metabolism after 4 days, due to increased secretion of norepinephrine.

I’ll post a link to the case of Angus Barbieri - he fasted for 382 days, and went from 456 lbs. to 180 (or 207 kg to 82). He was fine, and maintained a healthy weight for years afterwards. It’s not like he “lost so much muscle…” There is a hormonal basis for maintaining muscle when fasting - increased secretion of growth hormones accounts for much of it, along with the body’s recycling.

#9

i see, thanks for the answer everyone. i was also wondering, is muscle memory a think? or just a myth? and will working out during the fast help? also is it safe if i’m 16?

(KetoQ) #10

Muscle memory has more to do with developing a physical habit. It’s a real thing.

Walking uses muscle memory. A baby or toddler has to think about walking and balancing and putting one foot in front of the other. After a while, they develop muscle memory and don’t have to think about it. They just do it.

Another example, if you play baseball, when you were first learning, you had to think about swinging the bat, or concentrate on catching and throwing. As you improved and got older, you do those things without thinking, as you may be thinking about the specific game situation, rather than focusing on the ball.

Working out during a fast is beneficial. I and many others do it. First of all, you can more easily burn fat while fasting, so exercise can accelerate that. Fasting can also stimulate human growth hormone, among other things, so it can be beneficial for building muscle.

As far as fasting for a 16 year old, I’m not a doctor and don’t know your situation. If you’re 16, I’d recommend weight training and eating well and healthy. Weight training will be good if you participate in almost any sport or just want to look good as you begin dating.

(Mike W.) #11

Thank you, Daisy. I would like to see more posts like this from the admin team. SO many repeat questions that have been answered 100’s of times…

(TJ Borden) #12

You and @OldDoug just gave me my money making idea. There are all of those pre-packaged meal boxes you can subscribe to online.

I’m going to do the same thing for fasting. I’ll create a site, people can go on and select how long they wish to fast, then pay me whatever the daily rate is, and then for the amount of days they select, I’ll send them nothing…absolutely nothing.

This could be a thing…like franchise opportunities.

(bulkbiker) #13

Then we could create an app that lets you know how long you have been fasting rather than… you know use a clock…

(TJ Borden) #14

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: I’ve already seen people using those… and that’s all I could think too.

(bulkbiker) #15

twins?

(TJ Borden) #16

See, I have a fasting app already built into my phone, in case the clock math is too hard.

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(bulkbiker) #17

Does it need a Dr Berg video on how to turn it on?

(Mike W.) #18

All joking aside, that stopwatch is less than reliable. I’ve had it reset or had my phone die plenty of times.

(Bob M) #19

If my daughter (who is 11) were to come to me asking about fasting, I would say to avoid it. Instead, eat fewer meals (technically, a form a fasting), avoid snacking, and – to the extent she could – avoid all grains, seed oils, and the like. Eat whole foods, plenty of meat, and avoid sugar and eating out. I would say the same thing to a 16 year old. Change both what you eat and when you eat.

But I’m not sure that 16 years old is the time to start long bouts of fasting. You’re still growing. If you’re like I was, your sleep is terrible (you stay up late, get up early), etc. Do what you can, but pay attention to your body.

Sleep is potentially as important as fasting and low carb for losing weight.

In fact, you can think of these “pillars”: What you eat (or drink); when you eat (or drink) it; your stress level; your sleep. All are factors. If any one of those gets out of whack, it can cause the others to go too.

(Bob M) #20

You know, I used to be able to workout during long fasts (3+ days), but can no longer do so. I can still workout after about 36 hours of fasting, and I’m fine, but I have to eat shortly thereafter, typically within a few hours. Maybe that’s because I’m combining “intense” lifting and “high” intensity interval training, whereas I was only doing aerobics a few years ago when I started longer fasts.