5.6 Ketone Reading on day 4 of water fast

(Kenneth) #1

I just stopped a 7 day water fast because my ketone levels kept climbing; up to 5.6. And according to the optimal ranges over 5 puts you in danger of KetoAcidosis. Does anyone have any research or scientific data to share or shed light on this. Thanks!

#2

I had a reading of 6.9 on Day 3 of my last fast, and I felt fine. I don’t believe people with ketoacidosis feel fine. When I told my IDM fasting counselor, she said if I get any more readings above 6.5 to take some bone broth (I’m presuming the protein in it would bring the ketones down a little?). But she didn’t freak out about it. :smile: I also believe I got this high reading during a fast because I’m not fully fat-adapted yet and my cells aren’t taking up the ketones quite as quickly out of circulation. Just started another fast so I’ll see how it goes. How long have you been keto? Fully adapted already?

The “authoritative” information I’ve seen on this topic online was a little all over the place so I’m not sure it would be helpful. A lot of mixed messages, and sorry wish I had some research to provide.

(Candy Lind) #3

Your glycogen supplies are depleted when fasting; of course your ketone levels will go up!

Several others have asked about high ketone levels and ketoacidosis. You can search it in the forum. High blood sugar concurrent with high ketones (along with the symptoms you can find listed at the Mayo Clinic website & elsewhere) indicate ketoacidosis. We have high ketones because we need them for energy, not because of failure of the pancreas to provide enough insulin for our BG level.

I think it is confusing because the majority of the people they are addressing are in the “high blood sugar camp;” they are assuming high blood sugar, instead of specifically saying it’s high levels of both ketones and blood sugar that indicates ketoacidosis.

(German Ketonian) #4

My most recent reading was 7,6 after a huge fatty meal (6500kcals, over 650g fat) and being 42 hours fasted thereafter. I feel fine. Phinney et al state that ketoacidosis begins at 15-20 mmol/L. I personally wouldn’t worry. But as the other stated: look at other threads in the forums.

(Kenneth) #5

Got it. My BG actually went down from 97 to 76.

(Kenneth) #6

Thats what I need to know. The “optimal Ketone range” graphs indicate the beginning of Acidosis after 6.x. Thanks.

I also found this video:

(German Ketonian) #7

Mind that 0.5-3 is nutritional ketosis. Phinney et al. are generally opposed to fasting, where they say starving ketosis begins. But whether they like fasting or not: even they say fasting isn’t dangerous because of an imminent ketoacedosis but because of muscle break down (among other things).

#8

True, and I do get that. But it’s the chart from Phinney and Volek, where the range above about 3.0 mmol is marked as starvation ketosis, that gets cited often. I believe they weren’t talking about high blood sugars as a concurrent issue.

(Kenneth) #9

This is helpful. TY

(Kenneth) #10

Thanks everyone. Your responses were quite helpful. Effectively what I have learned - Fasting Ketosis is different than Nuturitional Ketosis. Nutritional Ketosis tops out around 3, where Fasting/Theraputic ketosis pushes up to 6-8 range and Ketoacidosis occurs somewhere in the areas of BG 200+, Ketones 7+.

Does this sound right? Key point: monitor BG to make sure it is healty/normal range (for me 96 and below) and not be too concerned with ketones raising as high as 7 or 8. If BG rises, as ketones rise, then be concerned?

The graph below is for a Non Nutritional Ketosis person, but makes the point well
image

#11

If you’re not a Type 1 diabetic or a seriously severe Type 2, you have nothing to worry about. People in diabetic ketoacidosis are generally extremely ill or undiagnosed type 1s.