460 pounds & first day on Keto

(Cary) #8

You’ll have to see what works best for you…Total or net carbs. I think most will tell you total carbs and that’s what I go by. However everyone is different. Some can stay in Ketosis with 50g of carbs, for me that’s not the case. I keep to 20 max.

#9

Hmmm I see. I spent a lot of time trying to find foods high in fiber because i thought I needed it. One avocado and I’m nearly at my max if you count the fiber, yet i think I read on here them telling you to eat avocados.

I wasn’t planning on getting any test strips or blood monitor, I was thinking to just keep my net carbs at 20 per day and I thought I’d be good, but now I don’t know. I really want this to work, I think this diet is well suited to me.

#10

I use net carbs for real food: veggies, meats, eggs, etc…

Foods that have been processed, baked goods, etc - total carbs

(Karim Wassef) #11

Welcome!

For me, it was important not to be in a caloric deficit. Stay satiated. The first phase is about adaptation, not weight loss and if you reduce your energy intake, the body will start to push back. I needed to get creative to get enough fat in, but I think it helped me adapt better. Protein was not as important, as little as 0.7g/lb of lean mass (not total mass) was enough for me. Keeping net carbs under 20 was a hard and fast requirement. Also keeping salts and electrolytes up and hydrating is key - Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium…

That’s what worked for me. I started at 255, so you’ll have to figure out what works best for you over time too.

(Ken) #12

You’re right where I was when I started, about the same age and weight. Here’s a few points.

Carbs are not needed. Do not think you need to consume any. At this stage they should only be incidental, like the few contained in fibrous veggies if you choose to eat them.

When you eat, follow the macro. Eat at least 60% fat. More is fine. Eat two thirds meat to one third fat, by weight.

It’s ok to eat less as far as amounts and calories as long was you follow the macro.

Only eat when actually hungry, eat enough to be sated and stop. Do not eat according to a schedule, and do not eat amounts determined by calculators.

If in doubt, eat more fat.

#13

Welcome, and congratulations as you start your second day!

(PSackmann) #14

Hi Jabba, and welcome!

I use net carbs and haven’t had any issues, I like vegetables and want to be able to eat as many of them as I reasonably can. Pay attention to how your body is feeling, and don’t be afraid of eating fat and/or protein to combat your sugar and carb cravings.

#15

You don’t really need the strips and counting and tracking. Get used to eating only non-starchy vegetables for your carbs. Use your app to learn where carbs are unexpectedly hidden, rather than to make sure you’re hitting macros. Nobody really knows what macros are right for them until they try, and it changes both over time and depending on what you do on a specific day. The only rule you need to follow is very low carbs (and add salt, magnesium and protein as your body demands).

After you get used to that, you can start tweaking, tracking, wondering, stressing out over nothing… But remember that stress works against you. Make sure to learn how to feel good about eating before you fall into that trap.

The people here have lots of great advice for people who have already gotten started. But I wouldn’t start looking into the vast amount of helpful details before getting used to eating well on almost no carbs. Or you could research without experimenting during your first 4-6 weeks on keto. It often takes the whole first month just for your body to get used to a very different diet and start to fix the hunger and satiation signals.

(Retta Stephenson) #16

Hey there Jabba! I wanted to welcome you to the best place EVER to get going to a new you. These guys are the best, and will have lots of advice and answers.

I only have two things to offer.

  1. Don’t let it get too complicated. 20 net carbs: bingo. Eat if hungry: bingo. Stop eating if no longer hungry: bingo.

  2. Never, ever, EVER quit. There will be days you are all fired up. Great. There will be days you “feel” less than enthusiastic. So what. Do it anyways, and soon the enthusiasm will return. Trust me… been there. Why do I know? Because several years ago I, too, was 460 pounds! Yup, that was my start weight too.

Now I am sitting right at 261 pounds, with around 70 to go to reach my goal. You will most likely get there faster than it’s taking me, since you are a younger male, and I’m an older gal!

So hang in there, and KCKO (keep calm and keto on). I know without a doubt you can DO this!!
My best to you, Jabba,
Retta

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #17

Welcome I started out at 406. I have lost a bunch of weight. If you have any questions feel free to ask on my thread or PM me.

Also don’t worry about anything but the carbs the first two weeks. Only after you are over your carb withdrawal start thinking about protein and all the other details etc.

(mole person) #18

Twenty net carbs is absolutely fine as a starting point, you probably will never need to go lower. Most people lose well at this level. Further, it’s low enough to get you into ketogenesis, and fat adapted if you hold it successfully for the first six weeks.

What you did looks perfect. Carbs below 20 net, and eat only until you a satisfied. If you don’t lose weight then you can revisit your macros later but this is not the time. Most people will lose weight doing what you are and it’s counterproductive to make the switch to this woe harder than it already is.

Do remember, however, to look for carbs everywhere. Condiments, cheeses, even eggs. Count them all and look at every label for them. As someone said above, do not trust the “net” amount on any proccessed food. If it has a label, such as an Atkins bar then go with total carbs.

Good luck and congratulations on making this big change for your health! :hugs:

Oh, and don’t forget you will need way more salt than before. Also, stay very well hydrated.

(Consensus is Politics) #19

I wanted to get into the groove as fast as possible when I started. So I went zero carb, as much as possible. Neither did I count anything. I didnt count calories or macros. I knew roughly what my fat to protein ratio should be, so I did that. Roughly 75% fat to 25% protein. I knew about how much protein I needed to eat, snd then at the rest as fat, if I was even hungry.

It took me 14 days to go from 245 pounds to 205 pounds. Yep, fourty pounds in two weeks! It was pointed out to me by someone on the forum here that it’s equal to 18% body weight lost. Its been almost 1 1/2 years now. I’m now at 190 pounds as of 6 am this morning. I dont try to lose weight, I’m never hungry. I do eat as much as I want (I tried to push myself to eat more, just because, and nearly had it all come back up. So I no longer try to clean my plate. I just save it for the next day.

I did notice in your first post, you said you were eat ‘x’ number of fruits and veggies. I seriously suggest you drop all fruits. Except avocado. Its a good fat source, as well as potassium. As far as veggies go, omly eat leafy greens. Dont eat any veggies that come from the roots of the plant, very starchy.

I didnt see anything about diabetes in your post. Had tou done an HbA1c test? If you havnt done one, make it a priority. Everyone should get one done at least once a year. Diabetes blind sideed me. I had to go to the ER with a BG level of 594 (600 considered deadly). I didnt even know I was even close to having diabetes, not to mention having it take me to deaths door, knocking loudly.

One more thing about fruit. The main reason to stay away from it isnt because of its sugar content. Its mostly because its sugar is in the form of fructose. Frutose from any source should be avoided like the plague. Your body cant readily use it as energy, it has to be stored as fat first, then it can be converted to energy from there. Besides that, the nutritional value of both fruits and vegetables have been greaty over exaggerated.

I’m sure you’ve heard this by now too, supplementing your salt! Talk about the charlie horse from hell. Muscle cramps in the shin! That go down to the top of your feet, that curl your toes BACKWARDS!! :confounded:

Keeping insulin low is key to Ketogenics. That has a side effect of the kidneys allowing large amounts of salt to just flow right out. The daily recomended amount for a Ketonian is 3x higher than a Carbonite. You will also probably want to supplement other electrolytes as well. Salt, potassium, magnesium, et. al. are used up a bit faster in us ketonians. Salt extremly fast. Part of getting accustomed to keto is whats known as Keto Flu. Its part carb withdrawl, but in my opinion it’s mostly electrolytes deficiency. One of the best things to do when you begin to feel hungry is put about an 1/8 teaspoon of salt under your tongue. Same with other cravings you might have from carb withdrawals. Most of the time a little salt will fix the issue.

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #20

Welcome! Congratulations for getting yourself here and opening up with a big dose of honesty, and for having the courage to reach out and start asking questions. One of the important things to remember is that there’s an army of people her rooting for you!!! So don’t forget to post anytime you have a question, concern or for any reason whatsoever.

This^^!!! It takes a leap of faith to start pouring oil over your food, add whipping cream in your coffee and cook with big chunks of butter and coconut oil. I’d been made to think that bacon was “bad” my whole life, but here’s a way of eating (WOE) in which people lose weight, turn their T2D around by eating … bacon!!! :bacon: Imagine that! It really takes a bit of time for your brain to embrace all of this. Your body will embrace it sooner :slight_smile:

#21

ICarbs are a limit, try for 20g or less

Fat is a limit. Especially if weight loss is a primary concern. Just eat till satiated.

Protein is a goal. Try to reach and going over is alright and of no concern.

Keep carbs and protein constants. One uses fat as the control lever for weight loss, maintenance or gain.

And watch on your electrolyte intake you’ll need to more than likely increase your amount till your boys recalibrates.

And on water drink to thirst. And go by pee color.
Clear = too much and one is just flushing out all their vitamins and minerals
Slightly yellow = good to go.
Dark yellow = drink more.

There no need to just drink water to drink it to hit some amount like a gallon for example.

#22

Wow thank you everyone so much for all your kind and informative posts. Here are my numbers today. It seems like the jury is out when it comes to net carbs. On one hand I feel like if fiber doesn’t get digested why would it count? I’m not a biologist and I’ve read that some fiber is partially digested so I just don’t know. I’m tempted because avocados are great if you count net carbs, will give me fiber and potassium and be a fat bomb. But most of all I want this diet to work, if I’m going to all the effort I don’t want to ruin it by counting net carbs.

My calories went slightly over the Carb Managers recommendation today. I’m not too worried, I didn’t think I could drink on this diet and today found out I could. I only drink on weekends or every other and next time I’ll plan for it and make sure there is room for those calories. I had Gin mixed with flavoured perrier water (no sugar, carbs, or artificial sweetener)

I quoted Robert’s message because I had a couple questions. I’m pre-diabetic according to my hemoglobin but not my fasting sugar level. It’s one of a long list of reasons I’m starting this, but thank you for mentioning it. I have been using salt the last 2 days, just on my finger. How would I go about supplementing potassium and magnesium? Just supplement pills from the health store? Oh and I only ate the fruit the first 2 days when I didn’t know what I was doing, the last 2 days I’ve been tracking and am getting a better handle on what I should be doing. Congrats on your amazing weight loss by the way!

One last thing if anyone is still reading this wall of text (sorry). I just wanted to add that in 2014 I was on something similar to this, Dr Jason Fung’s program. I was doing intermittent fasting big time, 3 day fast to start, then 1 day eat and 1 day fast. No carbs, no processed foods, no sugar. pretty much no limit to non-root vegetables, protein and a good bit of fruit allowed on your eat days. It was all about insulin levels as well. (I’m oversimplifying the program). I stuck too it with a cheat every so often and lost 70 pounds in 6 months, but I couldn’t keep up the fast one day and eat the next. I got derailed and gained it all back plus some. That was the best I ever did on a diet, and let me tell you I tried a bunch. This keto diet is very similar to Dr Fung’s plan, but the trade offs are good in my opinion. With my history with fasting skipping breakfast isn’t too hard. Once I get more into this diet months down the road I’ll consider having longer fasts here and there. I’m kind of hoping that my body will “remember” how it operated during that time and hopefully I’ll get fat adapted a little easier. I was working with Fung when it was new and fully covered by OHIP (government). Now it looks to be quite costly.

Again, thank you all so much!

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#23

Proper management of sodium is really the most important. Potassium supplements can be dangerous so it’s generally recommended that you get your potassium from your food - if you find yourself short you can look at making some ketoaide KetoAide homemade. As to magnesium - I take a supplement of 400mg a day but your needs may be different. Some types are better than others so it’s worth doing a search of the forum to see what other people are using.

(mole person) #24

You look like you are doing everything right. I don’t use any supplements either. I just make sure I get loads of sodium. I have actually come to like a half teaspoon of salt mixed in a cup of hot water. It’s sort of like broth to me. But there is nothing wrong with actually having two cups a day of actual salty broth if you prefer.

I do supplement potassium by adding 1/4 teaspoon of Half Salt to my “broth” twice a day (never more, potassium is dangerous in excess).

This product can be found anywhere in Canada.

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(Cathy) #25

Welcome! I wish you success and joy with your new keto lifestyle.

When it comes to counting carbs, I have decided that I count them all except when it comes to avocados and shirataki noodles. I would never eat avocados if I were to count all the carbs and I think they are too valuable so they are ‘special’. 100% konjac yam shirataki noodles are insoluable fiber and get a pass.

The most important thing for me in the beginning was support and this website is fantastic for just that. Pay attention to shared links from actual experts and learn to evaluate good science from bad. And again, welcome!!!

(Consensus is Politics) #26

Indeed!! And if anyone here says something that doesnt sound right to you, feel free to question it! Its all about the science, and if we (well, I that is, can only speak for myself on this) say something that really doesnt make sense, ask for it to be referenced, no offense will be taken. That should also help you weed out the bad info from the good info. After all, we are all imperfect humans here, and we all make mistakes :scream:

You are right about net carbs. You dont need to count fiber. There is an issue though depending on country of origin. Some countries will show all the carbs, and then subtract the fiber from total carbs. Other countries dont do that, and will have even the fiber included in total carbs leaving tou to do the math. IMHO, if tou dont know, assume the worst. And if its that important to know, do a little research on the product to find out :cowboy_hat_face:.

Ketonian Tip: watch out for hidden sugars. Maltodextrose/Maltodexterine is higher in sugar than plain white table sugar. Ok, thats not entirely true, but it does effect you blood glucose much much faster than table sugar. In this case its all about the glycemic index. Table sugar has an Index of about 55. Maltodextrose has an Index of 115 (ish). I discovered this because I was using a product labled “safe for diabetics”. It was definitely not My BG level was going bonkers, wacky highs showing up seeming randomly. I began keeping track of nearly every thing I did from the food I ate, to the times I ate, macros, total calories, where I bought the foods, even labeling. Thats when I noticed a trend right after certain times a day. Right after taking my metamucil. I began doing a little reaearch. It looks to me like we dont even need fiber in our diet, at all. Plenty of doctors confirming this as well. Trust me on this one thing, research this for yourself. The things that you learn during such searches are invaluable. :sunglasses:

Glad to hear you already know about intermittent fasting. I do this 100% of the time now (just over a year). Getting fat adapted makes fasting so easy. Just be strong and don’t snack/eat outside your feeding window. Remeber its all about keeping insulin as low as possible for as long as possible.

Oh, since I’m on a roll here… :thinking:

Don’t fret about some of the arguments you see about “why” something works. We have had several big discussions here about different things. It boils down to this… if its working, fine. Dont change it. Also, when you see such a discussion, be careful not to let preconceived notions lead you down the path into believing one side over the other. We get our share of trolls here. We try not to feed them. They tend to muddy the waters a bit, then they eventually get banned. You will see some of us argue a point, and both sides rigidly hold their ground. To which I’ll often do is look at their references, and decide for myself. There are even times whith certain individuals, when they get going, it can be fun to watch. I always look at the science, and both sidies will often have good points. Thats the thing about science, its never settled. When someone tells you the science is settled, they are sellung something :sunglasses:.

And above all else, keep calm and keto on!

Keto Vitae!

(Andi loves space, bacon and fasting. ) #27

I also started fasting before I came here. I think the world of Jason Fung, but one of the things he under-appreciates is that fasting is so much easier when you are fat adapted on a keto diet. I learned that after I started participating on this forum. I’m not pushing you to go back to fasting, I just want to make the point that if you choose to, you’ll find that after a few weeks of keto and after your body has adjusted to using fat for energy and not glucose, then fasting is a cinch.

I really encourage you to go with net carbs so that you can eat avocados and some veggies - veggies are great to soak in oil or butter so you can get in more fat!!

@anon54735292 posted the link to Brenda Zorn’s keto-aid above. I drink one of those a day, whether I’m fasting or feeding. Took a couple of days to stop gagging on the magnesium, but now I actually like the taste of it!

Then listen to your body. Some people here find that they just don’t do veggies or cheese or dairy or something else. And some here have found that they feel best when they go full carnivore. We all got here because we weren’t listening to our bodies, so it’s a learning curve for all of us.

I look forward to two years from now when your username is “Han (formerly Jabba)”