4 years on Keto - finding weight gain is harder to stop - tired of fasting

(Mike) #1

I’ve been on Keto for 4 years. I’ve lost 50 lbs, starting with 30 from fasting 21 days on water and salt. I find, however, that through 20-30 fasts and then eating keto when not fasting that it seems easier to gain weight.

It occurred to me that I could experiment with eating less fat (since I have over 40lbs left to lose) and yet keep the protein amount at a good level (I weight lift 5 times per week.)

If this works, I will eat more fat AFTER I get to the weight I want.

Does who has gone through this successfully have some advice??

Thanks!!
Mike

(Allie) #2

Maybe stop fasting and go to 2MAD for a while to give your body a chance to recover from too much fasting? I know it has its benefits but too much is still harmful.

(Bob M) #3

When you say “20-30 fasts”, what does this mean? How long? How many days between each? How many times a day do you eat when not fasting? Within what window?

#5

Stop fasting, start tracking what you eat. You’ve almost certainly slowed your RMR.

(UsedToBeT2D) #6

Eat regular, settle on a long, slow burn…1/2 pound per week maybe? You’ll be there in less than a year.

(Mike) #7

20-30, 10 day or so fasts in the span of 4 years. So I guess that comes out to about a fast every 2 1/2 months or so.

#8

Regular long fasts + regular weightlifting…maybe your body is stressed? Perhaps try doing the shorter 16:8 intermittent fasting + keto to give your body a break and see if that helps. Unless you were eating excessive added fats, I don’t see the need to reduce fat persay especially if it comes with your protein.

(Mike) #9

Not sure what you are showing with the PubMed info

(UsedToBeT2D) #12

So the conclusion would be to limit fasting.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #13

It’s a nice, neat formula but I have a sinking feeling that it only bears out in an otherwise perfectly healthy body. Once again, hormonal fusterclucks like adrenal PCOS, severe stress, and menopause might be the monkey in the wrench.

Because I did the numbers, I have more than enough calories to draw from fat stores to cover my daily energy expenditure, and I still have severe fatigue and hunger during and after fasts, not to mention debilitating muscle cramping the likes of which I have yet to discover on the internet.

If only Ancel had included some peri- and post-menopausal subjects in his torture study, some pre-diabetics and diabetics, some teenagers and elderly, some PCOS patients, some diagnosed PSTD and CPSTD sufferers, and some people who started the experiment already morbidly obese. Then, maybe…

(Joey) #14

Not clear on precisely what kind of fasting you’re doing, but if you’re not eating enough to keep your body functioning, it rebels and shuts down. Then you stop losing (and potentially start gaining) weight with every available calorie.

If so, you’ve put your body in emergency survival mode. That’s neither healthy, sustainable, nor enjoyable.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #16

Read both of them, every word. Cited by’s, too.

“This value disagrees with the results of other observers who have measured metabolic rates of diverse groups. The disagreement is explained in terms of individual metabolic properties as opposed to those of the larger population.” --Gee, I guess there might be differences out there that don’t easily plug into a static formula. I wonder what and who they might be?

“Methods: Twenty-five male and 18 female healthy recreational athletes” --not diabetic, not obese, no mention of age, state of menopause, etc.

“Finally, we fit the model to mean data from an elderly population” --How many women, did you say? How elderly? How obese? How metabolically disordered?

#17

Yes. They defined the MAX value attainable by healthy, fit people in their physical prime. Your mileage will be less depending how far from that ideal your condition happens to be.

(Stickin' with mammoth) #18

Like I said…

(Rebecca ) #19

I don’t do any extended Fasting at all…my usual pattern is 6:18. Do you mean you fasted on salt and water for 21 days to lose 30 lbs? If so, I agree that may have stymied your metabolism. Maybe try OMAD or TMAD in an intermittent Fasting window.

(Mike) #20

So … let’s drop the fasting … my main question was if someone with experience in keto can tell me if lowering the fat on a keto diet help in weight loss for someone who has been on keto ffor a while?

A study of lean people is not for me. I was 262 and lost 40 lbs, then more. I have 50 or so to lose and it has become increasingly more difficult.

I have tried carnivore, OMAD, etc. I would love some success stories from those who have 1) been large 2) experienced keto gains (losses, actually!! :slight_smile: 3) have been Keto for 3-4 years or more … and can give some insight when they have struggled.

#21

This is carnivore and not keto, but I was re-watching a video this morning where different ratios are considered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDCGHglNSbg

Basically, it seems that it comes down to n=1; some lose more if their fat is higher and protein lower, whilst others lose more if their fat is lower and protein higher. I’ve also read / heard lots of scenarios where some lose more if they eat more, whilst others talk about needing to adhere to lower intakes.

I also found this article interesting: https://ketoanimalfoods.com/2019/05/13/chronicobesity/ - a journey through different types of ketogenic eating (keto, carnivore, psmf, dairy etc).

I realise this isn’t the categoric answer you’re looking for. It would be a lot easier if we were all the same and there was a simple answer. Perhaps a trial of one method for 30/60/90 days might work, and if you don’t see progress, you could try switching?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #22

If you are trying to argue with your body about what weight it should be, good luck. Dr. Phinney says that in their studies, people generally lost around 20% of their starting weight. @richard said in one of the Dudes podcasts that he’d lost 25%, and that’s about what I lost, too.

But Dr. Phinney has also mentioned recently that he has also seen people whose fat loss started up again after a year or two, as though their body had needed some time getting comfortable with the lower weight before consenting to part with even more of its reserves.

I’m not convinced of the logic behind the notion that if we eat fat the body is incapable of also metabolising excess stored fat. Dr. Phinney has data to suggest that on a ketogenic diet, fatty acid metabolism speeds up enough to metabolise both dietary and stored fat. And the experience of forum members tends to indicate that skimping on calories is not helpful, since the metabolism slows to match intake.

(Bob M) #23

Here’s my theory about people who have to reduce calories: the reduction is relative to their hormonal hunger. In other words, if they followed their hunger, they would overeat.

It’s the only thing that makes sense, otherwise they would eat too few calories and their body would adapt by lowering their metabolic rate.

#24

Okay…to answer your question directly: Yes.

I have just gone 3 years keto, mostly omad. Starting weight was maybe around 220/230lbs (didn’t weigh myself, could have been more), current weight 138lbs.

Yes, there was a time when added fats (pork rinds, macadamia nuts etc) made me gain weight on keto. I attribute this to the additional fat pushing me above my maintenance calories. I am not one of those people who can eat above their maintenance calories and allegedly still maintain or lose weight.

I cut out the excess fats, focussed on protein but not overly fatty cuts (although not lean cuts either) and I lost the weight gained and my weight loss continued.

That said, I wasn’t working out like you and I wasn’t doing repeated long fasts like you. Unless you were eating a ton of excess fat from snacks or added fats - it may not be the reason for your weight gain. Especially in light of how much you work out & fast.