4 years on Keto - finding weight gain is harder to stop - tired of fasting

(Allie) #25

Fat is just a lever to help you avoid hunger, adjust it to suit your needs. I don’t even take notice of it anymore.

(Bob M) #26

@JustMo Very impressive weight loss!

(Stickin' with mammoth) #27

I’ll second that.

Story of my life. (sigh)

Depressing but logical.

Can you explain a bit more? Not sure I’m getting it.

Congrats! May I ask your age and gender? Those two parameters are often critical.

I operate this way as well, adding just enough fat to make things tasty. However, I do see it as vitally important for the absorption of certain vitamins and minerals so I would never skimp.

(Bob M) #28

Sure, though I hesitate to do so, as this will end up in a never-ending CICO argument.

Some people say they have to “reduce” calories to lose weight. (Let’s assume that it’s possible to figure out how many calories you need, such as your exercise never changes, and it’s possible to accurately count calories such that one knows what a “reduction” would be.) There are many studies indicating that if you reduce calories, your body compensates by reducing metabolic rate. In fact, a whole book has been written on it:

But here’s the blurb for one of the many studies:

What these studies indicate is that if you reduce calories, your body compensates by reducing metabolism.

So then, how can people who “reduce calories” overcome this?

The only thing I can think of is that their feedback system, which tells them they are full, is messed up. That is, they’ll eat more than necessary if they follow that. Instead, they have to lower their calories less than what they would eat if they followed their hunger. This means they aren’t actually reducing calories, they are actually eating the correct amount of calories.

Even I have begun to “eat less” than eating until I’m full. Why? Mainly because I can eat less than what I consider to be “full”, but my hunger actually decreases over time, so I’m getting “fuller” as hours pass, even though I’ve eaten less than what I could like to eat if I fulfilling hunger was my goal. I’m effectively “reducing calories”, but it’s because I know my hunger will decrease over time.

And, as always, it’s infinitely more complex than my theory:

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5639963/

#29

Thanks! All thanks to Keto :slightly_smiling_face:

#30

Mid 30s, female. Also, don’t work out as much as the thread starter and don’t fast as much either. So, quite a few differences to consider.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #31

Fascinating, and the flip side is the guys in various studies who ate considerably more than other participants yet managed to lose just as much fat. Bikman claims that the energy consumption of adipocytes is known to increase far beyond their metabolic needs, under the right conditions (particularly an abundant caloric intake). He calls this “mitochondrial uncoupling,” coupling being the state in which the metabolic activity of the mitiochondria is tightly regulated by the energy needs of the adipocyte containing them.

(Allie) #32

However, I do see it as vitally important for the absorption of certain vitamins and minerals so I would never skimp.

Oh I don’t skimp either! I cook in ghee or coconut oil, pour olive oil on eggs, only use fatty cuts of meat, etc. but I don’t obsess about adding fat specifically and don’t count anything at all.

(Robin) #34

Wait a minute, what??? You beg to differ with said links? Prepare for banishment. Lol

(Stickin' with mammoth) #36

I remember reading somewhere that the state of ketosis brings on an inner calmness and heightened mental clarity…but…

(UsedToBeT2D) #37

Which is what I do.

(Robin) #38

You have a lot of experience and knowledge to share.
And I agree that links are valuable ways to spread information.
But there’s no reason to heckle folks about them.

(Kirk Wolak) #39

Mike,
I think that CYCLING through various versions of the diet is important.

My personal theory is that the weight starts coming on, because of our “trusty habits”…
Those things that we don’t realize are working against us.

Every person has to find their Kryptonite. For me, it’s any Diet Drinks. It becomes a slippery slope to Keto Junk Food, then to a Keto Junk Food Binge, then crossing the line.

Dairy is another of mine. Even tried adding butter, so I could by cheaper burgers and add the fat. Problem is that at about 1 stick a day, there is more than enough dairy to jack me up, and I slowly start gaining weight, and my hunger is not properly sated.

Stress is big for me. It drives my stress hormones up, and that knocks me out of ketosis, starts driving inflammation… Fasting Helps… But I am just treading water…

Recently, I re-evaluated what I was doing, since I have gained 30 lbs in the last year.
Stress has been a huge part of it. Losing Family Members, etc. etc. etc.

But, I have been on the FRINGE of where I should be. This last week, as I wrapped up a stressful project, I chilled out. Cut out the “diet” drinks and after 5 days. Only some improvements. Within 2 days of cutting ALL of the butter, and getting back to FATTY MEAT (Short Ribs)…

Bam… I started losing weight, being deeper in ketosis. Feeling much better.

Tony Robbins likes to say… Living life at 7 (on a 1-10 scale) is a Deadman’s Zone…
Not miserable enough to change, not good enough to celebrate/enforce.

I TRULY Feel that I got to 10, drifted down to 7 for the last 2 years, and the impact has
been that I just did as little as I could to not gain too much… Deadman’s Zone.

So, I’ve reset my expectations that NEEDING stimulants, energy drinks, diet soda… That’s a 3!

Right now my goal is to keep cleaning things up. I feel much better.
So, I am going to work out a set of 3 Month Plans. To get CLEAN (Now), To get LEAN (Next Q),
To get Buff (Building Phase), To Lighten Up/Experiment… Then REPEAT…

This way it’s not as repetitive, and I feel like I am building towards something.

I truly believe people suffer from Carb Creep the longer they are on this.
Also, bad food creep. (Butter lead to Cream Cheese, to Cheese… Then my skin conditions came back… Joy)…

Good Luck!

(Stickin' with mammoth) #40

Hovering between relief and sadness that there is another person just like me out there in the Ketoverse.

#41

If you are doing resistance training 5 days a week that could have the side effect of gaining lean body mass.

Maybe body weight is the wrong bio marker?

How are your clothes fitting? What is the change, over time, in your height to waist measurement ratio?

The weight lifters here probably have a whole list of other measures to measure health against. Are you feeling stronger?

Bio: I am 196cm tall and have Viking ancestors. I was 153kg, reduced to 113kg on CICO diet over a year. Returned to 135kg when I looked away for a few seconds. Started keto as my blood tests indicated a path to T2D. Reduced to 120kg over 6 months. Hit a few middle-aged male health hurdles and diet compliance wavered, and with it body weight. Am through the most recent health challenge and stuck to low carb ketogenic eating throughout. Lost 4 inches off my waist measurement while focussing on keto for pain relief. Back to swimming and surfing, and getting stronger (again) weekly. I’ve been keto for 7 years. I found it’s not a superpower. But it’s also very interesting and the best WOE for me at the moment. There is variety with in it to test different aspects. Currently I eat 2MAD for 5 days per week and OMAD for 2 days per week. Animal whole foods based keto. I’m physically active on a homestead property and stand a lot in my job. My personal trainer is a 2 year old Labrador. I am in the ocean as much as possible. I found the weight loss happened/happens when I focused more on regaining aspects of health or I had to build a long rammed earth and car tyre wall by myself with no machines.

(Rebecca ) #42

Me, too! Erikson (maiden name) from Sweden!! I don’t think I’m built like one though!:smile:

#43

OK ya did well on ‘jumping here and there’ and 'forced fasting to ‘diet down the lbs’ and I get that, I did that :slight_smile:

but believe me it won’t work long term.

All people can starve off lbs. We all been there, done that.

Now can ya keep it off longer term with ‘not jumping in and out’ of crazy type dieting to achieve results you want?

We don’t ‘know you’ at all. We don’t know your real food intake, or your ‘cheat days’ or your drinks or your life with mostly exercise or not doing it? Simple thing is we don’t know you :slight_smile: You been here since 2018 but I don’t know your past on this forum at all and your journey so I will say one thing, and ya ain’t gonna like it LOL

You are probably not following Keto Plan in its true form at all. Consistency on plan, long term is key to it all. STAY ON THE PLAN as it is meant to be and ‘it works’ but in 4 yrs if you HAD to force and then ‘forced more lbs’ off you are not truly ‘in that lifestyle eating change zone’…but I know ya might tell me you are :slight_smile: and I get it but in the end…do not lower fat intake.

In fact for you I recommend higher fat and meat protein intake.
ALOT more then you probably are doing but without your meal plan and how you roll on your macros and more I don’t know for real recommendation but to me, you are eating crap not keto, using ‘tricks, tips, forced fasting’ to gain ? results and then you just ain’t doing the consistency on plan to make it all work…to make the body truly healing and metabolically reset to better heatlh.

I know this is not a favorable post…but unless you start to see the long term picture here everything you did will be useless and you will gain it all back and you will find yourself starting over again.

Not hoping this is you but you are fighting your way forward, thru kinda the ‘wrong way’ ya know but you are also learning a ton while doing what you are doing.

Eat a ton more fat, eat a big amt of protein, and limit those carbs very very carefully into that total 20g range and a whole new life will open to you :slight_smile:

wishing you the best always!

(Robin) #44

Great quote from Tony Robbins. I don’t have what it takes to stay at a 7 out of 10. I need to be as close to 10 as possible. Otherwise, I cannot be trusted. Even by myself.

(Kirk Wolak) #45

Actually the plural of anecdote is Data! So, it fills my heart with Joy, personally. To not be alone.
But I also have GREAT empathy for your situation.

I would like to say “It’s not Fair”, but if I am being honest. I did HORRIBLE things to my body and my metabolism for 3-4 DECADES. So it feels like it is probably the punishment I earned! LOL.

The one UPSIDE is that SIMPLY KNOWING this, and NOT giving up, creates our opportunity. Like the kid with dyslexia who spends 5 times longer to read things, or switches to Audio Books, or PAYS someone to read the material to them… Because that’s the hand he was dealt… And succeeds despite the limitations…

We are officially the underdogs in this war… Let that be our rally cry. That if WE can discover the levers and our own kryptonite, that others may be able to learn from that.

Right now, I am looking outside… I want to get a walk in… I am feeling better. My inflammation is dropping… My wife just noticed how “Sharp” my ankles look, whereas a month ago, she was concerned over how she could barely see my ankle. (this is inflammation, it shows up on the scale as weight, and it can easily start becoming fat (IMO), but watching it go away reinforces the proper behavior).

(Todd Allen) #46

I’ve been keto for 6+ years and probably lost 200 lbs but I’m only down about 40 lbs from where I started. That sounds awful but it really isn’t too bad. The last five years I have been yoyo’ing up and down within about 10 lbs of my current weight. I have been more interested in improving body composition, ie more muscle and bone and less fat, than losing weight. Body comp is harder to judge but based on my appearance in photos and by dexa scans I have made some progress each year although not without set backs and net progress is modest.

I find my results impacted more by changes in exercise than diet although maybe because I do more experimentation with exercise. As for diet I have been influenced by the carnivore hype and have increased animal proteins and especially saturated fats since when I started keto. Nuts and seeds have been my biggest trigger for fat gain and when their intake is low everything else is easier. I have settled in to a routine of daily time restricted eating and of near fasting one day a week where I avoid solid food but have a little protein and fat in my morning coffee. When my weight creeps higher than I like I get a bit more aggressive with the fasting and when my weight is in a range I am ok with I relax on the fasting. Otherwise I mostly eat to satiety and not to daily calorie or macro targets.

I don’t see keto as a magic bullet that guarantees success but rather it has been a path for me in which success is possible so long as I pay attention and sustain a reasonable level of effort. And so far I haven’t found anything better.