2.5 mo. & still not fat adapted, but its ok and here is why

[SandraB]

I am posting this in hopes that it helps other newbies who are discouraged when their blood ketones keep registering below 0.5 in the morning, even when they are doing everything right.

I have lost approximately 20lbs in the last 2.5 mo and I feel good. However, I am not fat adapted. I check my ketones and Blood Glucose (BG) every morning. My BG is always between 99 and 110. My ketones 0.3-0.4. However, by the end of the day, my BG is in the 60s and my ketones are above 0.5. I could not figure out how my BG could be high and that I was knocked out of ketosis every single morning (without cheating)!

I read all the advice here. I searched for hidden carbs in my diet, I boosted my H2O intake and added ACV to it, I dropped dairy & coffee (to help my adrenals and reduce inflammation) and ate protein before bed… all to no avail. Then I happened on information regarding the Dawn Phenomenon (DP). I read a lot about the DP, but the articles always talked about DP in terms of Type 2 Diabetics and I had not been diagnosed as a diabetic (or even a pre-diabetic). Then, I found this…

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

Now I understand that those who are insulin resistant (but not T2D) can have DP too. I also see that I was likely closer to a diagnosis of Diabetes than I realized. Yikes. According to this, I am simply breaking down sugars stores in my (likely) fatty liver. My body sure knows how to store sugar as fat! So, this makes a lot of sense…

I’ll keep ketoing on and I hope this helps others who are in my fatty liver boat I would love to know if there are other more experienced folks out there, who had this problem, how long did it take you to get fat adapted?

[Healthy1]

Excellent article-thanks for sharing!

[Anna_juliet]

Yup your right!!! I always get a bad reading in morning. Now I never test til after lunch. Xx

[BenjyBunny]

Can I ask why people are so keen to test themselves everyday?
I’ve always wondered about that.

I understand it’s really nice to have data confirm something for you, but I also think it can be a little unhealthy to constantly chase blood results.
If you’re feeling good and feel it’s working, I say leave it at that!

I know for prediabetics and diabetics it’s very important, not so sure for everyone else.

[Sickgirl]

Hi SandraB,
I have been lucky enough to also lose 20+ pounds in weight and I have been frequently testing my blood for glucose and ketones. My ketone level has been at least 1.6 or higher for some time, but after a while on the keto diet I started have hot flushes again (I thought I was well over the menopause by at least a year). This LCHF diet appears to have reignited my hormones - Now if I test my blood I only register 0.2 for ketones. So I think it could be the hormones mucking up the numbers. I have no desire to over eat, I do not crave carbs and I am still losing weight although it has slowed down a little and I still feel adapted. Do you think that hormones could be the reason for your blood test results?

[carolo]

I think hormones do interact in this way. The insulin release from the dawn phenomenon pushes the ketones down.
Dr Nally in his podcast mentions hormones fluctuating ad returning to normal on the diet. Your body can be repairing itself for quite some time. I’m 15 mths in on a Keto diet, probably perimenopausal and was getting dawn phenomenon (enough to wake me up early) and mini hot flashes throughout the mornings. Length of time this happens probably does vary depending on your fat stores. Young women who are overweight get their menses early. Gets you coming and going!
I’ve found evening primrose oil (1 capsule of 130mg) is minimising the impact nicely. Less early dawn wake ups and no mini flashes.
KCKO.

[SandraB]

I’d be happy to answer BenjyBunny. I am guessing you are very in tune with your body and that is great. Not everyone has a clear “tell” around if they are in ketosis or even if they are good. For example, I have Lupus and it can cause some chronic pain. So, feeling “good” is relative and not always reliable. Additionally, some medications can mess with my appetite and cause inaccurate messages of hunger etc. I don’t believe that I am chasing blood results, as much as I am trying to become more in tune with my body. My hope is that I can learn to trust what I am feeling or, at the very least, have a gauge of “good”. I do see your point, however. I can see how constant monitoring could become a compulsion and I’m watching for that.

For right now, I feel a bit like I’m making a map of me, and to do that I need data. I am glad I have been testing everyday, I’ve found that I have glucose reactions the things I hadn’t expected (some teas-that likely have hidden carbs) and have not had reactions with things I expected to (lemon juice, SF Ketchup etc.) Those positive glucose responses can lead to cravings and stalls that I don’t really need. All of this helps me map my path.

This is not my first time at the Low Carb rodeo. However, the last time I did it, I was not very detailed in my approach or in keeping any data. Despite losing about 40 lbs I fell off program…I blame this, in part, on not knowing how to “read” my body. This time I am keeping very detailed notes. I am really hoping I can stop taking all this data after 6 months or so…if for no other reason than the blasted Keto strips are so expensive and I hate pricking myself

[carolo]

I found it really good early on to know if I was on track. I had fatty liver and insulin resistance (not diagnosed pre-diabetic though obviously on the way) and was aware of how your brain can ‘lie’ to you about being hungry. The measurements reassured my logical side that all was as it should be.
I measure less now as I have learned the signals and just check in occasionally.
If you don’t have other Keto people around you, it can be a good way of reassuring yourself, especially if changes are slow.

[SandraB]

Yes, Sickgirl, I agree! I am 48, and not yet menopausal, but not far from it. Keto has reduced my PMS symptoms from pretty awful to next to nothing. Now the way I can tell I am premenstrual is when my ketones don’t rise during the day, usually a day or two before my period. So, yes I believe hormones adjusting and re-adjusting has to be contributing. Carolo, thanks for the tip on the primrose oil. As I said, menopause is just down the road for me and all tips are welcome!
Sandra

[SandraB]

Hey CanKeto,
My night time 2 hours after eating numbers are never much above 1.0. I believe that is why the DP keeps knocking me out…I’m never solidly in Ketosis (just visiting for the evening). I am guessing my body was really deranged before Keto. While I wasn’t diagnosed Diabetic, I was obese and Diabetes is hard wired into my DNA… so, I was headed in that direction. I think you are right I am getting the benefit of a LCHF diet and will need time and tweaks to become fat adapted. You mentioned some tweaks you have made to refine your keto. What has worked for you? A couple of the tweaks that have seemed to make the most impact for me are…

1. No dairy with casein. I use only grass fed, full fat butter and cream…no cheeses. Since cutting them out, I hit that 1.0 at night more often
2. No diet soda. La Croix, tea and coffee are the only non-caloric drinks besides water I drink.
3. Reducing supplements…found some hidden carbs in supplements I’ve been taking for years

Sandra

[Sickgirl]

I’m making a map of me

I love that phrase it’s exactly how I feel about me - the human body is facinating.

[SandraB]

Cool! I’ll have to give this a try on my own n=1. About the diet soda, I’ve noticed that too with Coke Zero as well. I seem to do ok with Zevia, but I don’t care for the taste as much.Thanks for sharing!
Sandra

[Sickgirl]

Jimmy Moore is another that has spoken about his personal journey and the need to tweak his macros to fit his dietary needs to be in an optimal ketogenic nutritional mode.

[SandraB]

CanKeto,

I think I have the same problem of gluconeogenesis keeping me from getting in to ketosis (your “last resort” theory). Keep in mind it has only been 3 days, but what an amazing shift in those 3 days. I dropped my protein to 50-60 (you didn’t say what you meant by “way down”, so I just halved what I was currently intaking). I still exhibit DP (My BG was 107 this morning and my Ketones were .5). However, my BG and Ketones have come to around 69 and 1.2 respectively throughout the day! 1.2 is the highest I have been at since starting March 25th! I also seemed to have shifted out of a small weight stall. I have lost 1.5 lbs this week. I am so grateful you shared this idea.

I have al sorts of wonderings, after trying this.

For example:
When I did Atkins years ago… I wrongly interpreted Atkins’ work to mean high protein (lots of steak and sausages without boosting my fat). I now know this is why Atkins worked for me in induction, but failed me (or I failed it) after. Did this practice train my body to be gluconeogenesis efficient and convert protein to Glucose very well :)?

If your body tries to keep you at blood glucose between 60-150 mg/dl…I wonder if my body has a genetic predisposition to the high side or have l trained my body to move there with years of SAD diet. My fasting BG prior to Keto, but during LCHF, was 119 mg/dl. Could this be another indicator that diabetes would have been in my future if I hadn’t changed habits in eating?

I am super curious to have some lab work done on my kidneys. I have Lupus and it affects my kidneys. I spill protein in my urine. Restricting dietary protein used to be a universally accepted way to treat proteinuria. However, this no longer is standard practice for kidney patients. Now it is common to use statins. I think as we have seen with obesity/diabetes… patients struggle to monitor diets and it was more reliable for the Dr. to just prescribe a satin. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this restriction helps that too. I made an appointment for lab work next week.

Anyway, I am reading a ton on gluconeogenesis and proteinuria to try an tweeze this out. Thanks again for the tip!

[siobhan]

Coke Zero has Ace-K in it which metabolizes (?) the same as sugar e.g. insulin and glucose spiking
Most diet drinks nowadays have it except for diet coke, a brand of diet root beer, diet dr pepper, and some others

[RJ3]

Excellent read!

[SandraB]

CanKeto,
Absolutely agree. This morning, I had a BG of 72 and Ketones were 1.7 (a new high!!!) Also, I am down another .4lbs in the last two days. This is after I used the wrong vinegar to make my salad dressing. I used blueberry vinegar instead of balsamic and that put me over 20 net carbs yesterday by 5. Yikes! Still in ketosis though. This is wonderful advice and I am so grateful you shared. I am also so glad others are hearing it too!

[Lee2Keto]

I do the same as you. I never test till mid day before I eat if eating and not fasting that day.

[msfitnessnut]

How are you doing Sandra? I am experiencing the same thing and getting frustrated. I tested my BG during my morning IF, but I also took a half of caffeine pill before heading to the gym 5 hours prior and had also had a bulletproof coffee on my way to work - I tested when I arrived and I was at 82. So I decided to remove the bulletproof coffee, all coffee for that matter, but still took my 1/2 caffeine pill (leg day today). I decided to drop the IF and had breakfast and tested my BS when I arrived at work - its 92 ! DAMN ! Any suggestions? I am 27 days into Keto. I don’t eat anymore than 50 grams of protein (of course being a newbie, it took a bit to get it down) and no more than 20 carbs and about 110-140 grams of fat.

[msfitnessnut]

Hi Carol: How do you fix a fatty liver? I think I am insulin resistant and I feel much bette rbeing on the Keto plan and I am agreeing with Sandra in that being new to this way of eating and waiting to reap the stellar results in mind and body I need to know that I have arrived and now I know what my “sweet spot is”. I don’t want to be a slave to numbers either. I’m sure I have major metabolic damage and I need to give my body time to surrender to its new fuel source. Any suggestions would be awesome