16/8 or 24/0?

(David Cooke) #1

After leading a dissipated, sinful New Year’s holiday’s period (three small beers and a few other digressions) I decided to do a 24 hour fast, big breakfast followed by a 24 hour break. This seems easy to do for me, and I can’t see any advantage in going for a joyless 16/8 style fast. …
Am I right in assuming that to get BACK into ketosis, a 24 hour fast is the best, 16/8 ketosis is for maintenance of ketosis?
I no longer wish to lose weight so may have to start having sinful days every week to keep my weight up, followed by a 24 hour fast, or is that a waste of time, not to say possibly unhealthy?
Thanks

#2

You could just start eating keto again but a 24hr fast won’t hurt.

Depends what you mean by ‘sinful’ - I certainly wouldn’t combine keto with one-day-a-week highly processed carbs or high sugar foods but if you can’t steady your weight on keto then maybe some nutritious, complex carbs one-day-a-week might help.

(David Cooke) #3

Actually I was thinking of a few low carb beers, maybe eat a pizza with the kids, eat a Thai dish (rice)

#4

Oh. I was thinking more along the lines of some of the higher carb veg such as sweet potato, peas, carrots etc… I can’t see low carb beers being a problem but frequently eating things like pizza & sweet rice dishes (lot of sugar in Thai) in combination with a high fat diet is not something I’d do.

(David Cooke) #5

No sugar going into my Kow Pad Thai, we grow rice!

#6

Maybe you just don’t need to be full on keto - perhaps bog-standard low carb would be better for you? I’d still emphasise whole, natural foods (a more paleo approach) but maybe add in a few carbs each day rather than going carb crazy one day a week?

#7

It sounds like your looking for an excuse to eat crap. It is possible to maintain or even gain weight while adhering to LC diet. More specifically, it is possible to do this while maintaining a persistent state of ketosis. I know this because no one in my family is trying to lose weight. We’re doing this for optimal health, and with one exception, have never been overweight or metabolically deranged.

The way to gain weight is to create an energy surplus. Being in a state of ketosis is an unfavorable hormonal environment for this, but it can still be done. We use 3 tools:

  1. Drinking smoothies- it’s easy to drink liquified foods. Using coconut cream and avocado as a base (then adding flavor from nut butter, fruits, veggies, coffee or cacao). These pack a lot of fat and can top 600+ calories
  2. Eating fat bombs- very calorie dense and extremely tastey, which makes them easy to consume in large quantities
  3. Snacking on nuts and seeds- lots of nutrients and very calorie dense

Regardless of weight, it is unhealthy for the body to have prolonged periods of time with elevated insulin levels. In metabolically heathy folks, the time between meals is sufficient to allow BG to return to a low basal level. In insulin resistant folks, that might take 24+ hours. Regardless of weight, it’s not healthy for anyone to eat above their carb tolerance on a frequent basis.

If you gain weight on your carb days, you probably have some degree of insulin resistance. Metabolically healthy folks do not gain (or lose) weight rapidly based on dietary variations. Their bodies are flexible and adjusts its energy management as necessary.

It is neither necessary nor desirable to eat crap and fast as a means of weight control.

Fat causes cancer shocker
(David Cooke) #8

Oh I’m looking for an excuse for eating crap? Well you didn’t need to waste your time writing the rest of your crap as insulting people is a really good way of getting them to ignore you. I probably eat better than you, nearly everything we eat is from the garden, poultry house or pigs.
My question was: Am I right in assuming that to get BACK into ketosis, a 24 hour fast is the best, 16/8 ketosis is for maintenance of ketosis?

(Carl Keller) #9

That’s the advice I often see in online literature. The thinking is you stored a lot of those carbs as glycogen in the liver and the body won’t waste it so it becomes a fuel source until it’s depleted. Fasting would speed up the process.

#10

Maybe crap was a bad choice of word. Most folks would call these junk foods. Perhaps I should have used the term junk or carbage. FYI, the body will preferentially process alcohol before anything else, so drinking will definitely decrease the level of ketosis.

This is exactly what my initial post addressed. First, I said it wan’t necessary to have “sinful” days in order to maintain your weight. And I gave you real world suggestions for doing so that my family uses. Second, I explained why it isn’t healthy to eat above your carb tolerance and then fast in response, as you proposed. If you don’t believe what I said, then Google the dangers of hyperinsulinemia.

You certainly eat different than me. We live on a tropical island. Our primary meat is fish. We have avocado and coconut trees on our property and consume them in copious amounts.

Having fasted ~400 days over the past 18 months, I can give a precise answer to your question. Unfortunately, the answer is only applicable to me. YMVW. Nevertheless, here’s my answer. Recently, I ate legumes in a quantity above my carb tolerance. The next morning, my BG = 108 and BK = 0.5 and I started fasting. The 2nd morning, my BG = 74 and BK = 1.4. Thus, my GKI went from 12 to 3. When I eat crap (ie. sugar + flour), it can take longer to return to normal. On another occasion, I ate an entire half of a key lime pie as dessert: morning after GKI = 10.6, fasting day two GKI = 4.8, fasting day three GKI = 3.3, fasting day four GKI = 1.4 and I stopped fasting.

During an extended fast, my BG settles down into the 60s to 70s range. I normally eat in a manner such that my morning BG is under 85, thus maintaining a deep state of ketosis (GKI < 3). I am mildly insulin resistant (HOMA IR 1.7) so my BG falls slowly. Typically only dropping by 15-20 points overnight while my ketones double. My data can only be illustrative. If my sister eats the exact same meal, her numbers will be different.

Your question cannot be answered by polling this forum. It varies widely across individuals. It can only be determined empirically by measuring your BG (and BK if possible). And then deciding the level of ketosis that you wish to maintain.

(David Cooke) #11

Now that;s a sensible reply.
Don’t assume that you are the only person on this forum that lives in the tropics, I for one get sick of mangoes and coconuts sometimes.sometimes