So basically higher leptin implies that you fat cells are not getting the message to your brain that they have had enough? It suggests that leptin resistance develops (and recovers) very quickly since these were only 30 and 50 day diet arms (men and women).
That’s my current understanding. Appetite normalizes quickly. The hypothalamus is a key player in homeostasis, so anything that brings correct signalling back will have an effect.
See also above studies about fatty acids and satiety.
Thanks. I just added them to my reading for today.
I have enjoyed reading this thread and have been struggling with my weight. I have stayed the same for a solid year. Yesterday I reduced my intake while keeping my diet very low-carb. Bit too much protein, I think, but still I dropped some weight. It is likely water weight, but still I’ll do the same today. I also was OMAD.
I have been eating the same amount of calories for a year with good ratio on macros. I have been staying the same weight. This it kind of makes sense for me to drop the calories. I still have enough fat to draw from. I have been very reluctant to reduce my calories having had problems in the past on an SAD diet; however, I still have fat to draw from so I’ll give it a go.
Have you ever tried just not tracking for a while to see if your natural appetite has started working? Just look at carbs.
I over eat. Even protein
I can very easily overeat protein too. I have to be very careful to prevent it or it will leave me a ravenous beast the next day. I don’t find that there are any signals tied to a reasonable protein amount that stops me. I can quite easily eat over 100 grams a day.
I feel the same way…protein doesn’t satiate me, fat does, so I eyeball my protein and then adjust the fat lever.
One thing I love about these forums is learning about how other people’s experiences are different from my own! I’m the exact opposite: I can happily chow down on literally thousands of extra calories worth of fat and not notice that I should stop eating, but protein fills me right up. You could put a kilogram of ribeye in front of me and I would naturally stop eating it before I cleared my plate. Put the same number of calories of salad dressing or avocado or dairy or chocolate in front of me, though, and it will all disappear! Of course, I’ll feel stuffed an hour or two later, and regret having eaten so much, but at the moment I’m eating it, I’ll feel totally fine. My satiety signals work much better with protein.
I find that all fats are not created equal. Saturated fats in meat and cheese (solids) satisfy differently from oils or dressings (liquids). It’s why I love egg yolk, bacon and ribeye.
I could easily eat way more calories in bacon before feeling satiated than ribeye!
Youre right, it is nice to see how others are doing it and learn something new, just in case if one method doesnt really work.
I did notice, however, that as long as I stick to meat, eggs, veggies and fat, my satiety signal works really well. Whenever I had some replacement foods, baked goods, nuts, anything with sweeteners, protein powders, etc. my satiety signal was way off and I could easily overeat. I no longer eat any of these, it can quickly get out of hand.
My understanding is that insulin blocks the leptin receptors in the hypothalamus. This makes sense, if you think of it in terms of fattening up for the winter. If you are eating carbohydrate and therefore are in fat-storage mode, you don’t want your fat tissue telling the brain to stop before you are fat enough to get safely through the winter.
So high carbohydrate intake raises insulin, which prevents the satiety signal from getting through. As a seasonal adaptation, fine, but in an environment when tasty carbohydrate is available year-round, not so much. On the other hand, while chronically elevated insulin is unhealthy because of the multitudinous effects it has throughout the body, I haven’t read anything about the effects of chronically elevated leptin. I’m not sure anyone has even investigated.
Also, I am firmly of the opinion that “leptin resistance” is a misnomer. I prefer the term “blocked leptin.” In the case of insulin resistance, cells actively down-regulate their insulin receptors, to avoid having to respond to the insulin level. In this case, the hypothalamus is not avoiding receiving the leptin signal, it’s just that insulin got there first and won’t get out of the way.
Because your body can only use so much of your stored fat at a time. So if you go too low over an extended period of time, your body uses that and your stored fat and thinks that’s all their is and brings your rmr down to meet it. So mix it up!
Actually, I’m entirely of the opinion, like @Karim_Wassef, that not all fats affect satiety equally. Literally every one of the fats you listed above fall into my ‘not actually very satiating’ list. I only find meat fat really satiating (although egg might work, I’ve not tested it enough).
I do find protein very satisfying short term. The problem is that it messes up my satiety the following day if I pass a certain limit. The only solution for me has been a lot of added meat fat with my meat to get my protein sub 20% of calories.
I’m not sure, but the vehicle of the fat might also matter. It seems for me that fat + meat is super satiating while fat + vegetables, in nuts, and in dairy just makes me bingy.
It’s why sharks prefer seals… yummy fatty mammals.
Fair enough! I’m completely willing to accept that different fats are satiating to different levels. I can eat way more cheese than fatty ribeye.
I think this is what we miss when we talk only about macros – foods are more complicated than that. Two high-fat, low-carb foods can be quite different in terms of their effects on us!
What we eat together also matters, as I discovered when testing my own glucose and ketone response to chocolate. If I have some chocolate for dessert after a high-fat, low-carb meal, it behaves totally differently (much better!) than if eaten alone.
Exactly! It’s taken me two years to figure this out!
I did a pre and post pradnial BG test today at lunch.
Lunch was mostly protein and some fat.
- smoked mackerel
- sardines in olive oil
- maybe 3 ounces of olives
PRE 85 mg/dL
30 Min 88
60 Min 84
90 Min 87
120 Min 88
Compared to March measurements above you can see my mid day BG is lower. That is in line with other measurements I have made. Insulin Resistance is improving.
Satiety is an interesting subject - and metabolic slowdown is basically the opposite of what keto & IF do. It took me awhile to lose my fear of slowdown on a WFKD + IF - but it sure was great to lose it!
Personally I find high MCT fats like coconut oil and ghee (compared with lard, tallow, regular butter) esp satisfying AND brain-energizing (I have a brain-demanding job). I fat fast IF 18 hours many days a week (and usually one day 20-24 hours) using 2 tblsp of such fat in my morning tea, I get a around a tsp of the most beneficial MCTs - which I believe enhance metabolism due to brain nourishment/BDNF. And I also use other saturated animal fat in my cooking too, freely.
I want to point out that if one is midlife female in the menopause/climacteric process, thyroid function is affected by hormonal changes and the tendency for higher cortisol that comes with them. For fully fat-adapted females this can mean that a bit more carbs strangely calm cortisol (through a complex biochemical interaction that boils down to the flexibility of the keto cusp for the fat-adapted - as aimed for by the Drs. Eades - rather than perpetual deep ketosis) and therefore enhance metabolic health and recomposition, ironically. What is a bit more carbs? More than 20, but less than the upper range. For myself, I average somewhere between 20-60 net carbs per day (premaintence mode, with my energy intake as low as 1000 cals some day on IF, and as high as 2000 on other days - mostly unprocessed foods) and have had steady, slow recomposition by eating plenty of fatty veg along with protein and fat along with wine and a tiny dessert a few nights a week.
(Each carb is 4 cals, so, 50 carbs is 200 cals premaintaince estimated by Phinney & Volek, but without any special consideration for the type of carb (unprocessed, processed, ultra processed), or for particular metabolic needs of midlife females going through The Change (as is the current norm with much of LCHF/keto science). I also use dry Ginger supplementation to address cortisol. )
It’s a bit ironic that one needs to eat a certain amount of fat to be able to tap one’s own fat stores, but that the more you recompose, the MORE fat you need to eat if you want to keep recomposing and drawing on your own fat stores. For me as a 100% fat-adapted midlife gal, a fatty morning caffeine beverage helps me keep up good fat intake and also extend my IF - so I can better enjoy my feasting!
This graphic and article containing it from Phinney & Volek/Virta Health have helped me grok this over the seasons and I’m still comprehending it.