Why not reducing fat to lose weight in a keto diet?


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #51

Yes, this is the company I am using.

My doctor told me the “return to normality” appearing in the webpage was only approximate, and we both would work out what would be best for “stabilization”. For example, it is unlikely I will eat simple carbs such as potatoes and pasta, as described in the webpage.


(Jane) #52

Sounds like she is approaching it as a “diet” not a permanent lifestyle change. If you add those carbs back you will gain the weight back. Trust me. Not from the small amount they add back… but the hunger and cravings will come back and that will lead to overeating and weight regain.

At that point you want to learn to eat on your own without a doctor prescribing your diet. You will be in a good position to do this being on low carb and the appetitie suppression that it brings.

The best tool I’ve found for maintenance is fasting and it is so much easier after eating keto for over a year. If my weight creeps up or I’ve indulged in too many carbs and just feel sluggish, I fast for a couple of days and it “resets” me. It also makes keto a permanent lifestyle for me because I don’t have to deny myself the pleasure of social events and holidays but it also doesn’t send me into a spiral of weight gain with the follow up fasting.

When I was young and thin, if I gained a few pounds I would just cut back for a few days and the weight would come off. I kept my weight in a fairly narrow range with very little effort until the hormones of child bearing screwed me up. Now my “cutting back” is 2-3 days without eating LOL but I’m 60 years old so that’s what works now.


(mole person) #53

Yes, exactly. I’m 104 lbs and under 20% body fat. I must eat plenty of fat or I’d starve on a ketogenic diet. My body fat at it’s current size can only release a few hundred calories a day and if I don’t fuel the rest from food it must lead to metabolic slowdown.

At your current size you can still fuel your body completely from fat. You could also fast and you would be fine.


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #54

My doctor call it a “medical treatment”, not a diet or a permanent lifestyle change. She explicitly said the “treatment” would last for a few months. Later, I will have to change to a permanent lifestyle.

Maybe fasting is a good tool, yes. It seems reasonable, and helping to deal with “imperfections”. Also, Valter Longo recommends them (autophagy, etc.).


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #55

Wow, 104lbs. I do not know your height, but it seems impressive. Well done!


(mole person) #56

I suspect this is the real reason most people here have an issue with your diet. Lots of diets work to quickly shed weight and protein sparing calorie restriction will work very well, but for almost everyone the weight comes back when they reintroduce the carbohydrates. Even with the best intentions, adding carbs back in eventually leads most people back to overeating and hormone disregulation.

It’s not a big deal to try it though. But if you struggle to keep that weight off, come back here and try a whole food ketogenic diet as a permanent way of eating. It extremely powerful.


(mole person) #57

Thank you! I’m 5’5. This is my ideal weight and I’ve not been this size in over a decade. Whole food keto and time restricted eating keep me here.


(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #58

Which time restricted eating are you using?


(Jane) #59

LOL. she is changing what you eat… so it’s a prescribed diet without the negative connotation of the word. If you aren’t taking prescribed medicine and she isn’t performing a procedure on you - how is that considered medical treatment instead of a prescribed diet?

If you don’t make a permanent change then the weight will come back like > 95% of those who go on diets.

@Ilana_Rose has some good advice for your post-treatment phase and it’s good you are considering it now.


(Susan) #60

What you are doing now is not permanent and is like all the yo-yo diets I did for 40 years+ before finding Keto. That is what I am afraid of for you. If you were to just do Keto now and make it your permanent lifestyle you would be able to sustain it forever…and also:

  1. save tons and tons of money -from not having to pay this doctor that is making so much money off of you.
  2. save tons and tons of money from not having to buy any of her pills she is making you ingest… that are probably harmful for your body and not natural in the least.
  3. Saving yourself the grief of your body rebelling when you stop this artificial fix she has you on.

I am speaking from experience, I abused my body on all this yo-yo dieting, anorexia, bulimia, starving myself, laxative and diet pill abuse for years – Keto is sustainable and finally my solution to years of hurting myself… I just want you to be healthy and well and not go through all the anxiety and torture I put myself through. This doctor is making bank off of you… just because they have a M.D. after their name doesn’t mean they are not manipulative money-grabbing con artists…


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #61

Hey David, just for fun, and out of curiosity, if I gave you those numbers, would you plz do those calculations for me too ?

Male, 55yo, 6ft, 212lbs. I am a type A “5” by nature… But my job forces me to slow WAY down on weekends. Granted, that’s when I do my fasting too. So I dunno’… a 4 ?

BTW, imagine how it might screw with a persons mind, when they are naturally type A, and yet were obese, with debilitating Fibromyalgia ? :frowning: {so that’s my excuse :wink: lol}


(mole person) #62

I switch up one meal a day (all food in a single hour) and two meals eaten in a six hour window. No snacking. The only other calories that I have are heavy cream in two cups of coffee (120 calories total). Mostly I decide whether I’m having one or two meals based on my hunger. This week I’ve only had one a day so far.


(KCKO, KCFO) #63

Your body can pull @31 calories per lb. per day. Richard Morris has a calculator posted but I don’t have the link with me. An example You have 25 lbs extra, so x 31 = 775 calories. That is about the limit you can expect to come from your stores, as the lbs. go down, so do the calories you can provide.

I’d also like to point out keto isn’t all about the weight, your hormones and your general health will make this WOE worth while. And please do learn to cook keto and don’t just depend on preprocessed shakes, bars and meals. To succeed over time, real food is required.


(Full Metal KETO AF) #64

@FishChris Sure Chris, I put you down at activity 4, Very active-Hard exercise/sports 3-5 days per week because of your weekend fatigue and taking it slower on weekends. This figure includes a 20% deficit.

If you want to recalculate as you loose weight or any other changes I use the calculator at ketokarma.com :cowboy_hat_face:


#65

I really wish that all the posts linking to this calculator came with the caveat “Calculations are based on a study of high-carb calorie restricted diet in individuals who were not fat adapted [and may not apply to fat-adapted fasters]”
There’s no question that if you have less in the way of bodyfat you can’t fast as long, but the number of calories any one of us can pull from fat stores isn’t something we can figure out from that formula.


(KCKO, KCFO) #66

Well it is a good place to start for sure. Some of us can tap into those stores more easily than others.
People forget they have stored the fat for a reason, to be used when food is not forthcoming.

This article by Amy Burger really says it all you need to know anyway:

Edit to add: I don’t like the advice to use commercial fat free dressings. I feel the oil you intake is extremely important to your over all health. If I want to cut out fat in dressings, I just use either a high quality vinegar or a citrus juice without the oil. I did this when my focus was on weight loss, now it is eating nutritionally dense foods to stay healthy, so I use the good oils for dressing.


A challenge to figure this out!
(CharleyD) #67

This is kind of scary! Dietary, especially animal, Fat isn’t just a fuel to throw on a metabolic fire. There’s vitamins, nutrients and precursors to necessary hormones that are all contained in there. And it just so happens that it’s yummy and more energy dense than the other macronutrients.

This conclusion comes from a reductionist approach to nutrition that thinks that you can separate all you need down to a few things, the macros, some vitamin and other supplements, and you’re good.

I fall into more of a holistic philosophy and eat mainly whole foods. When I want to lose weight, I’ll make sure to eat fewer times throughout the day or fast, but I mostly eat the same amount of food either way.


(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #68

Thank you very much David :slight_smile: I like the macro balance there, and I feel like I’m probably hitting pretty close to that.
And to be honest, I probably have been hitting pretty close to this ^ + 20%, so maybe a stall shouldn’t be too surprising.

Anyway, I’m pretty comfortable right now. Certainly not planning on any “major” dietary changes. At this point, I’m really feeling like I will stick to Keto for life.

So in a few weeks or a month, if I’m still not below 210, I might either get stricter on my total calorie intake… Or, start doing the OMAD thing more than just once a week. I’m pretty sure that would do it :slightly_smiling_face:

Thanks again.


(bulkbiker) #69

Well unfortunately most of us know exactly how well these meal replacement diets work long term…but hey horses for courses…


(KCKO, KCFO) #70

In case anyone doesn’t know, watch Oprah with her little red wagon. It was hard to find this clip, she may have had youtube remove the original one, IDK?? We all know how that ended for her.