Why I had to STOP KETO after 2 years :(

[Rocco_Ameduri]

Then it’s time for you to go full Carnivore.
Check out Shawn Baker , I tried it. Love it

[James8007]

Hey Michael. Understanding when on a program such as Ketogenic program depending upon your age the exercise regime you were on put a tremendous stress on your adrenal glands especially if you are in the 40-60 year age bracket. Those small glands above your kidneys create those stress hormones which in balance are helpful but when you go above your aerobic zone your body sees that as a fight or flight response and with the inadequate amount of proper fat and carbohydrates to burn your physiology will fail and burn out. It’s more detailed than that. But that is the basics. I have worked with numerous athletes with their recovery because of the inadequate nutrients available in our food supplement to provide for recovery. My Hydrex and detox program are a must for all programs. After 8 years I am redesigning the Hydrex to fit groups like yours so they don’t damage their tissue structures. Soon to be ready along with numerous articles on health related issues.Good luck. James Stivaly LMT Energenx.org
Naturalhealthcarenj.com

[Bellyman]

I think the person who spoke to you in that way was confusing you with the OP.

I kinda got lost in the thread and haven’t figured out quite what that was or who it was, but…

If I said something that wasn’t kind or was out of place, I hope y’all will forgive me. Didn’t mean anything that way if I did, just chiming in with a “friendly conversation” tone though it’s hard to inflect in print.

Anyway, didn’t know, but hoping I didn’t offend.

[bej10]

Yes Nathan, I would agree with your list.

My experience: I’m totally fat adapted. I’ve been in ketosis for 1 year and 8 months. On a daily basis I feel great. If I go for a bike ride with a person who likes to smell the roses, I can do that 100% fasted, no problem. If I go biking with a group that is aggressive, where I have to push myself into an intensity that is beyond my normal, then I will bonk. Part of this is due to getting the electrolytes dialed in. I’ve been mixing up some ketoaid before each ride. The other part is energy. I keep a couple dates in my pocket. If the pace is aggressive, then I eat a couple of them. When I get home from the bike ride and test my ketones I’m still in ketosis.

There are people on this forum who talk about doing the Maffetone method. It is a method geared toward teaching your body to use fat during exercise. You may want to look into that.

And lastly, elite runners typically have exceptionally low body fat, so for most of us, we can just stick to the “compose yourself with ketosis” part and still be seeing incredible gains fitness-wise. But I would not venture often into anaerobic territories because it seems like evidence is emerging that, without healthful carbohydrates priming the pump, anaerobic efforts can lead to burn-out, adrenal fatigue, roaming cortisol, injury etc. I wonder if these symptoms resonate with anyone in this thread?

Regarding the above quote, maybe that’s why @Michael_Heffez had to stop doing keto.

I think it all boils down to finding what works and tweaking it as you go.

[CaptainKirk]

Wow, there is a lot to unpack. First everyone is different, I am a great example of that.
I could NOT do KETO/Atkins well in the past, because I was allergic to milk, and cannot tolerate nightshades (Tomatoes, Peppers, etc). So, the things I was eating were giving me cortisol, and inflaming me. Causing my edema.

In the last year, after 50 years of stops/starts, I hit 307… But I discovered my intolerance to nightshades, and Legumes (especially Peanuts. The peanut butter was CAUSING My Migraines. But it was 2-5 days AFTER I ate it).

I eventually went Full Carnivore, without EGGS (I was not sure, but I typically had eggs with Cheese, it turns out the Cheese was the huge problem).

ONCE I got rid of the LECTINS (Read Dr. Gundry), and I started IF (Intermittent Fasting), and LEARNED that I SHOULD NOT Lower my Caloric Intake!!! (Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD).

I dropped about 20lbs in 23 days, normalized my BP in 8 days!!! (A multi-year issue for me. Gone). I came off my water pill for Edema while on Carnivore. And I found I felt BETTER fasting than I did on my eating days.

As I discovered my remaining food issues. (And ordered a few more tests, due in next week).

What you LACKED was not better KETO, it was IF (IDMProgram.com) style approach. I am a CLIENT of theirs. Dr. Fung is amazing, and summarizes it best. My personal Doctor is ON BOARD and happy for me that I am doing this.

Intermittent Fasting, in 7 weeks has FIXED My insulin Sensitivity! I just took a GTT today. And at the 2hr mark, my Glucose level was BELOW my Fasting Glucose level coming in (79, 189, 62) (0hr, 1hr, 2hr). That is the GOAL, right there. This was a 75g Glucose challenge. (BTW, 75g is like 3-5 WEEKS worth of carbs for me). ALSO, I NEVER CAME out KETOSIS (4.2, 2.7,2.2, and 4hrs I was at 4.0 via Blood). [I used a Keto-Mojo for all of these readings. The nurse was really cool about letting me test in parallel to her, so I can compare the actual lab results later!

Fewer Insulin hits over 7 weeks. I was doing 7 hits per day before this. Down to 1 a day, roughly.
Off all medicines.

I will NEVER go back. And the point is that I CAN EAT WHATEVER I WANT… Once in a while. This wednesday I am having dinner with Friends. It is an eating day. And I may end up having something off my program. DOES NOT MATTER. First, like the GTT, it is a one time thing, and the NEXT Day, I am scheduled to FAST. Occasional Feasting is fine if you follow with Fasting!

Fasting DOES NOT lower your BMR. Cutting Calories does. And I think THIS was your only mistake.
Also, DietDoctor says it plain and clear. IF is far far better for you than Exercise when it comes to weight loss.

I wish you luck in whatever you do. Processed carbs are bad for us. And MANY Plants and Legumes are HORRIBLE for many of us. EACH OF US has to find out how their body reacts to various things!

Final Huge Plus: My Psoriasis is GONE! 30 years…

[lfod14]

I started gaining weight; I was decreasing calories, exercising several hours a day and for the life of me could not shed a ounce. Why? Excess cortisol/ stress.

Exercising for “Several HOURS” while lowering calories will destroy anybody’s metabolism, that’s a constant regardless of other issues that may have been holding you up.

Keto is stressful on the mind; regardless of who you are or what your willpower is; eventually foods, food groups will creep up on your mind and you will crave something but b/c you’re doing Keto, you cannot. That’s depravation.

It’s not “stressful on the mind”, Studies have shown the total opposite of that which is why it helps so many people come off anxiety and depression meds. Typically cravings are due to things in your diet and if you REALLY want to eat something once in a while, then you just eat it and go on with life. It’s not “deprivation” to not eat something that’s terrible for you. That’s called staying healthy and it’s something ALL people (try) to do whether keto, low calorie, low fat or any other way of eating. It’s no different than a low fat person eating some fried food with fries once in a while for a treat. Would you say a normal SAD dieter is dealing with “deprivation” because they don’t eat the correct amount of healthy fats for hormonal support? You’re using very strong words to sell the idea you’ve come up with to quit keto.

Aside from the stress the body is enduring, blood sugar may drop to abnormal levels (hypoglycemia) which is what I had faced on a number of occasions. Keto long term can become dangerous in that respect. Moreover Keto & exercise is NOT a good mix…if you like to bike ride, walk, jog or run, forget the SKD approach; long term it will do more harm than good. You’re body won’t be able to keep up and you will begin feeling lightheaded amongst other scary symptoms; i.e. seizures. I’ve learned the hard way; as they say: old habits die hard. Keto is almost like a drug; it can feel so good that it becomes addictive.

I do cardio 3-4 times a week and lift heavy 5x a week. I have a very physically demanding job and never have an issues during workout or otherwise. My blood sugar is stable. I also Mountain Bike, again, without any of these issues as do countess other millions of people eating this way.

You constantly have to worry oh will this throw me out or that might…stress will build up from depriving yourself so much and cheat days will throw you completely off track. You’re lying to yourself if you say you don’t crave something or you don’t need a cheat day. Willpower only takes you so far then your body & brain take control not you; you’re no longer in the driver seat.

Wrong again, MOST of us are very aware of what will pull us out of ketosis and no it’s not some constant fear running though our heads all day long. One of the perks of eating this way when done correctly is it CONTROLS those cravings.

Bottomline is that if you like exercise and/ or you wish to build lean muscle, Keto is NOT optimal for that…you’re better off incorporating some complex carbs (lentils, steel cut oats, fruits, sweet potato) into your diet. Complex carbs + protein is how lean muscle is formed. That’s biochemistry and science…you cannot rewrite the book on how the body works and how muscle is built. Perhaps if you’re sedentary, then SKD might work but for most- doesn’t seem to be the case.

If you think carbs are required to build lean muscle then you really haven’t looked into this at all. SUGAR is not what builds muscle.

You have taken a LAUNDRY list of thing that are NOT the norm for most people and blaming them all on keto which is ridiculous. You obviously had something off in your diet or something else going on driving all of this, if you don’t want to troubleshoot it that’s fine, but don’t play the blame game. MANY of us here have been eating this way for YEARS without any of these issues, there is no shortage of Semi pro and a couple of pro bodybuilders that have switched sides, still hitting the iron harder than any of us could and keeping up with what they did on carbs without issue. No shortage of people over at ketogains going from fat AND skinny to muscular on keto, again, not passing out, going hypoglycemic, craving sugar etc.

[ClaraJTeixeira]

So starving yourself and working out an insane amount caused your cortisol levels to rise. I understand that. Stressing about food does not make sense to me. There is a wide variety of delicious foods within keto so I don’t get your point there but I agree that cauliflower pizza crust is an absolute abomination to pizza.
As for blood glucose levels dropping so low… was that when you were fasting and working out for long periods of time or was it the day after a guilt ridden binge on “non keto” foods? I have found I absolutely cannot binge on anything with sugar or grains because the following day my blood sugar crashes and I nearly pass out. To avoid that I eat a few grapes the following morning to keep the huge crash from happening so drastically. I then tend to gain 5 lbs of water weight for a week. And then I feel terrible! I prefer to just stick with strict keto to avoid the blood sugar game. Doing LCHF is a bit of a balancing act… low carb purgatory as some call it. I can understand wanting to do it because carbs are yummy (I love oatmeal!) but for me it always leads to water retention and a crash when I inevitably am forced to skip a meal due to work.

[clackley]

Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD

CONGRATULATIONS!!! And thank you for sharing your personal journey. It is so valuable to learn some of the very complicated issues many people are faced with. I particularly love this “Insulin causes weight gain, not calories… PERIOD”! I may have a t-shirt made up with that phrase on the front and the back!

[dlc96_darren]

Clara, did you see this comment from another thread? Might be worth checking out.

Crisis: I really don't like eating this way

OMG you MUST try hemp seeds! Shelled hemp seeds (often called hemp hearts) have a subtle nutty taste (which I like, but it’s easy to disguise if you don’t), and there are 11g of protein, 14g of fat and only 1g net carbs (2g carbs total, 1g of which is fiber) for 3 tablespoons, so they’re a pretty awesome non-animal-protein choice for keto, They’re also high in omega 3s, and I’ve personally found them very easy on my (sometimes cranky) digestive system. They’re great sprinkled on salads, and can …

[ClaraJTeixeira]

I did not, but do have hemp seeds with grand intentions of making noatmeal.

[ketotonic]

I for one…found you, and your topic…to be quite honestly refreshing…and important to bring forth as a topic…I had precisely the SAME EXACT experience with over-exercise…lowering kcals…YET not losing any weight approximately two months into my keto-ness!! I was immensely frustrated…and realised that my cortisol levels were, quite likely, through the roof…They WERE. Being, alas…someone known to go all ‘gung-ho’ on things I’m passionate about…I thought I was only ‘helping’ my personal cause…but it was not the case…The lizard brain…and basic need to survive was NOT lovin’it…It was excruciatingly difficult for me to dial down the exercise component…for I loved it…but my body simply did not have the nutrients necessary to keep my exercise addiction fuelled properly. I had been retaining water in my legs…whilst keeping ultra-lean in the arms and torso…and felt (and looked) a tad freakish…I think the water retention (via cortisol?) was ‘my’ nature’s way of telling me to slow down by making my legs feel heavy…Amazing the stories the body can tell us…if we only listen. I love your candor and transparency…keep posting your truth for we all can benefit!

[VirginiaEdie]

So… what was your solution?

[ketotonic]

Bonjour!..So sorry for the late reply Edith!..My ‘personal’ solution was to dial the exercise WAY down for two weeks…as in only long walks and light hiking on vacation…then reducing my runs from one and one half hours to a little under one hour…and not every day…but only three or four times per week. My mood, as well as my energy really responded with being uplifted. I think some keto-ers do best when really pushing the envelope edge on physical output…but my own body was firmly rebelling! Thank you for asking!

[FrankoBear]

It is an interesting critique of Michael’s observations.

Like any observational inquiry (and sharing), the findings can be compared and used to design further investigations.

We have to face the world fast approaching, that as individual interest in nutrition increases, we are all bioindividual. (Sounds like a line from a Monty Python film).

There will be many for which the ketogenic lifestyle does not work… optimally… for their goals or situation. They may go off and explore other options, like vegetariansm, or veganism, which can be done keto, but tend to be more carbohydrate laden and lower fat. It works for some.

There also is the option for healthy fuel switchers to go in and out of ketosis as benefits them best.

I can understand the point of view that the keto diet may be blamed for other aspects of human fallibility. But at the same time the ketogenic diet may not work for everyone. It may not work for everyone lifelong, even if it can be initially beneficial. The ketogenic diet may just be a roadside gas station that we stop off at as we journey down the road to individual health improvements.

[Michael_Heffez]

Nice use of vocabulary there. And thanks for your kind reply. I’m thinking of starting up again. It’s been 6 months. Any idea how long it can take me to re adapt please?

[Michael_Heffez]

Just reading your post now after many months. Ty! I’m going back on keto but prior to exercise I will add maybe some coconut water before or after…we’ll see how that goes.

[ketotonic]

Excellent idea…I think I’ll give that a go as well! Let me know how it works out for you!

[Ketodaisy]

Any idea how long it can take me to re adapt please?

I’ve started 3 times. The first time, I stopped after 4 weeks, so never got fat adapted. The next 2 times took me 5 each time. I hope to never have to start over again. Good luck!

[atomicspacebunny]

Any idea how long it can take me to re adapt please?

Looking at the header on this thread:

”Why I had to STOP KETO after 2 years frowning”

You really don’t have to do keto or have to STOP keto, keto is about cutting back on the sugar (what keto really is) intake and not so much about meticulously being obsessed with eating fat or protein but it is also important that the intake is adequate?

Quoting myself:

I eat rice, beans, bread, fruit and potatoes and still maintain ketosis,

How can I do that (above)?

Because I’m not eating this type of food all the time? Carbohydrates are not my primary source of nutrition? Meat and fat are! THAT IS MY KEY?

If you really, really think about it you don’t ever have to STOP keto, your awareness is what matters more than anything about what causes the problem and cutting back on the foods that are causing the problems or will cause the problems you don’t want in the future?

Keto is not about weights and measures, it is more of an educational learning experience on dietary and nutritional intake?

You can do strict keto like we do here on the forum or just watch what your eating and keep it simple.

There is so much confusion surrounding this whole keto definition thing and different methods and how too’s etc. Personally any diet that talks about reducing sugar is the lead I will always follow indefinitely!

The only thing you’ll ever want to know or will ever need to know is “…how much sugar am I eating, mixed with what? and how often?..” “…do I really need to eat three times a day…” because they said so (who is they?) rather than when your really hungry?

[VirginiaEdie]

I’m curious about how many calories you consume a day and how many grams of proteins you eat.

You mentioned that last time you were keeping your calories low and that did not work for you. What is your plan for this time?