Why I gave up Coffee and Caffeine - Is coffee toxic?

#1

Hi everyone. I am just over 1 week coffee/caffeine free, and have no longer any withdrawal symptoms. Those were tough, as I experienced fatigue, increased brain fog and tiredness (more than usual). Am feeling pretty good now just sipping water throughout the day.

The reason I decided to quit coffee and all manner of caffeine is I came across this link where a doctor discourages people with auto immune conditions or people who have or has had cancer from consuming coffee:

Now Dr. Ken Berry who was very pro coffee has recently also tweeted a post regarding perhaps showing caution regarding coffee and caffeine consumption. Although he didnā€™t go into much detail about why. But I found all the replies, along the lines of you can pry my coffee from my cold, dead hands! shows ā€¦ well, that people generally have an addiction to coffee/caffeine, which they would defend tooth and claw.

Anyway, this was the post he tweeted: https://twitter.com/KenDBerryMD/status/1575175577967161346

You can choose to do whatever you wish with this information. You can choose to laugh it away, or debate it away. My take on it is this, I am giving myself some considerable time off coffee/caffeine, and I will see how my body continues to feel. I am getting up easier in the morning whereas when I was drinking 3-4 cups of coffee a day, it felt like slowly crawling out of quicksand. Initially when I gave up coffee/caffeine I was more hungry, but that soon settled, and now my hunger/satiety signals are back to normal. So 2 meals a day instead of 3-4. I canā€™t say I feel like superman or rather superwoman yet, but Iā€™ll give it time and simply see how my body feels.

Dr. Ken Berryā€™s ancestral diet challenge is to exclude all coffee/caffeine, except, I think he allows one cup in the morning, for 30 days, I think it was. So I can certainly give myself 30 or even 90 days off coffee, and see how that goes. And my take on it, if you were willing to try that challenge is, hey, if you donā€™t feel any different at all, and you wanted to consume coffee again, for the taste (thatā€™s why I liked it) then by all means, start drinking it again.

Thoughts and insights most welcome.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Iā€™ve been caffeine-free several times in my life, and it was an interesting experience each time. I must say that the development of decaffeinated coffee beans was a real help in staying decaffeinated. A local coffee store used to have a decaffeinated blend of coffee that no one could tell was not real coffee.

But there are two things I have learned from these forums:

  • Coffee is detrimental on a keto diet, because it interferes with ketosis.
  • Coffee is very helpful on a keto diet, because it promotes ketosis.

My impression is (and I hasten to emphasise that itā€™s just my impression) that researchers who investigate the effects of caffeine tend to find whatever they are looking for.

So take from all that what you will.

(Joey) #3

@never2late Kudos to you for pursuing this path! Being a fan of my morning coffee, I feel a vicarious pang of fear at the mere thought of giving it up. :wink:

Ah, now I think I get it ā€¦ As someone who only enjoys a single cup of (caffeinated) dark roast coffee in the morning, I shudder to think what 3-4 cups of this stuff might do to me. Yikes.

In full disclosure, my wife and I often put up a small pot of decaffeinated coffee in the mid-afternoon. But thatā€™s more of a hit or miss habit - and thereā€™s no resulting ā€œbuzzā€ associated, so Iā€™m assuming the caffeine content is genuinely minimal.

I will confess that sometimes any leftover de-caf might wind up as the starting point for my dinner drink concoction (i.e., cold decaf + 100% unsweetened cacao powder+ vodka + cream + a drop of stevia on ice). Itā€™s my own keto-friendly ā€œwhite Russianā€ cocktail serving as an end of day treat. :roll_eyes:

#4

I need to start coffee drinking quite late to have only 3-4 :smiley: Maybe at 5pm. I rarely drink coffee at night. Happens but rare. So I can manage 3-4 cups until 8pm and then I stop. (I am worse in the morning. I can drink 4 cups right away, not leaving the kitchen. Thatā€™s a big reason I had to quit coffee, it just doesnā€™t seem good. who knew coffee is a great procrastination method for morning zombie me? I wasnā€™t like that most of my life.)
But my coffees are pretty weakā€¦ Maybe thatā€™s why I drank 1.5 liter of it the only time I trackedā€¦ :wink:

I personally feel exactly the same with and without coffee. As long as I can substitute it or I am determined so I donā€™t miss it at all :wink: I tend to drink cocoa when I donā€™t have coffee as they are almost the same to me. Different taste but otherwise very similar. And I never overdo cocoa like I overdo coffeeā€¦

I would never give up tea, I have no reasons for it. Itā€™s a nice fun form of hydration, nice to have it any time of the day. I prefer black tea and as with coffee, I drink it weak.

It sounds pretty good. I would skip the ice and stevia but I like all the others :slight_smile:
My luxurious coffee has cream, a tiny cocoa and rum. If not rum, itā€™s vanilla.
And I almost always use egg too but itā€™s not necessary when cream is present.

Now that I drink no coffee (except a tiny sprinkle on my egg milk) and watched some historical videos, I have a very weak grog sometimesā€¦ My Stroh80 rum isnā€™t drinkable alone and itā€™s rarely needed for desserts so itā€™s in my drinks sometimes. It has a nice flavor though I tasted Kraken Black once and that stuff is even better (but I can drink it so itā€™s less safe from me).

Itā€™s nice I can drink all the alcohol I want as I want it rarely and in tiny amounts. I donā€™t even track it as its calories are negligible.
I need all the help when I am without coffee and even cocoa as that isnā€™t carnivore. I am not very strict but still.

(Rebecca ) #5

Amen to that!! My Morning Coffee!!

#6

Itā€™s more like after lunch coffee and after dinner coffee for me :slight_smile:
But I proved that I can handle the lack of them just fine. As long as I can focus and canā€™t justify to drink coffee or else it suddenly comes back like nothing happened. I donā€™t focus a bit and bam, itā€™s back.

(Doug) #7

I quit drinking coffee on January 5. The day before I had an eye examination. Never have had any eye problems except for nearsightedness, but this year the pressure in my left eye was not just a little higher than in my right one - which has always been the case - it was high enough to be a concern. The eye doctor advised me to see a specialist for glaucoma; perhaps a little stent or ā€˜drainā€™ would be inserted in my eye to constantly be draining a little extra fluid out, thus helping the high pressure problem.

The soonest I could see the specialist was April 26, so a week from today. For the last 3+ months Iā€™ve had no coffee at all. I read that caffeine raises eye pressure, and that Omega-3 fatty acids helps lower it, so Iā€™ve been taking fish oil tablets for the same time period.

I havenā€™t missed coffee; quit it cold turkey and it was no strain at all. Used to have a big cup - at least the size of two normal cups - every day, first thing after getting up. If there is anything general here, Iā€™d say itā€™s that if there is no problem with coffee, then thereā€™s no problem - and this is going to be an individual thing. Iā€™d also bet that it is dose-dependent, that if people drink more than a given amount (again, varying on an individual basis), then caffeine will be a problem.

(Pete A) #8

I love coffee.

#9

Hi Doug, thank you for sharing your story, thoughts and insights. I recommend you to watch Dr. Lisa Wiedemanā€™s videoes, she has her own youtube channel, and she talks extensively about eye health, how itā€™s improved on a carnivore WOE, sheā€™s also the reason I quit coffee as she was the one who provided the link I posted in one of her youtube replies, and after listening to her, and reading the blog post, I decided I wasnā€™t going to take any chances. But I have auto immune conditions as well as a history of cancer. I was diagnosed with macular degeneration by an eye doctor when I was only in my mid twenties. I was also diagnosed with blepharitis, dry eye, mobeimean cysts and gland dysfunction. So I listen to Dr. Lisa Wiedeman more than any of the other doctors on youtube, as she has over 30 years of experience as an optometrist, and she gives me hope. Iā€™ve not had any eye cysts for a long time as I do lid care, but still have blepharitis. I have ridiculous light sensitivity, and Dr. Lisa Wiedeman had another interesting video on this, about how the use of sunglasses (overdoing it) can have a bad effect on the eyes. So I tried an experiment she recommended of using sunglasses less, and I was using them even on overcast days. Well, now I no longer am, though I still use my sunglasses on particularly sunny days.

As to the coffee, I agree with you, that this is going to be one of those individual things. For those with illnesses, auto immune conditions, a history of cancer or any unexplained ailments, it would be really worth it I think, to give up coffee, tea and caffeine, and see how the body feels without it. I have been consuming caffeine since my early twenties, I am 39 now. I am glad I am finally off it.

#10

coffee is toxic to our system, not a doubt on that but it is a very very very personal walk on drinking it or not per individual and how our reactions are to it.

so everyone do coffee on how it literally effects your lifestyle and your own body.

#11

Hi Fangs, I agree with you that coffee/caffeine is individual. But then so is a ketogenic WOE, and everything we put into our mouths. We all walk our own walk. My WOE is carnivore consisting of animal flesh, and animal based foods like pastured, local farm eggs, grassfed butter and some grassfed raw milk. I have only been off coffee/caffeine for about a week, and I am feeling better without caffeine so will continue to omit it. My thought is that someone who is doing well, feeling well, metabolically healthy with no ailments, is probably fine to go on consuming coffee. But it might be worth it for someone who is still battling auto immune conditions to give coffee, tea, caffeine up for a period of time and see if it helps. I have both a history of cancer and auto immune conditions, which is why Iā€™m doing carnivore. Iā€™m just also very lucky in that I happen to love the food. And my SO who is on a HC/HF WOE has been really supportive, which helps. And Iā€™ve decided to be patient about the healing. It is a journey. It takes years. But our bodies are truly amazing, this amazing machinery that can run so well, on the right fuel, and heal itself, given time, patience, and the right medicine (the right food).

(M) #12

I havenā€™t had coffee or caffeine in years now. I donā€™t really like the feeling of stimulation anymore. I prefer to just be calm. I also donā€™t like the thought of my stomach being filled with dark acidic stuff after having suffered gastritis. I drink light ginger tea before dinner and thatā€™s about it. Peppermint tea is good too but Iā€™m really trying to do everything I can to keep reflux down.

(Eric) #13

My biochem research advisor many years ago said that coffee is vilified every 10-15 years and then it is vindicated, and it cycles like that: thereā€™s always some hypothesis with a weak lab ā€œresultā€ that proves coffee is evil, and then it slowly disappears. (He was a coffee drinker if you didnā€™t guess.) And it would seem that something that ā€œampsā€ you up should drive a negative outcome over the long term. But the science has generally been less convincing and coffee remains. I really donā€™t have a dog in this fight: Iā€™ve successfully given up coffee several times and it seemed to do nothing either way for me personally. Right now I drink two cups in the earlier morning (usually with glycine) and perhaps a third a midday on occasion.

(Doug) #14

:slightly_smiling_face: I agree. Can we ā€œget something for nothing?ā€ I usually think that the answer is no. However, a lot of people drink a lot of coffee for a lot of decades - I donā€™t think itā€™s a problem unless it is - for the individual.

#15

Coffee is like a lot of things, tons of benefits, and sometimes downsides. Iā€™m a slow caffeine metabolizer, so I donā€™t get energy out of it either way, but thatā€™s never why I drank it anyways. To me, unless you can specifically connect a negative with you consuming it (assuming you like it), then drink it.

Problem is people wrongly having downsides, like me of the past, which was drinking WAY too many of them a day, I was just pushing it and asking for problems, but thatā€™s not a fair way to look at it either. Plus theirā€™s always decaf, which still gives you many of the benefits. Just make sure itā€™s either Swiss Water or Co2 decaf, you donā€™t want something chemically decafinated.

I do believe however, that coffee quality comes into it, good clean beans are very different than preground, stale, pesticide soaked moldy crap, OR anything that comes out of a K-Cup.

(Doug) #16

One night at work, about 30 years ago, just for the heck of it, I made two pots of coffee and drank them both - so about 20 normal ā€˜cupsā€™ of coffee. Got a little light-headed and felt like I was ā€œvibratingā€ at a high frequency, probably had some high blood pressure going on, a modest amount of nausea, but it really wasnā€™t too bad. Did not feel sleepy at all. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#17

OK, Iā€™ll be the anal oneā€¦ you know your stomach is literally full of acid right? Not saying Coffee is a cure for anything, but you do know itā€™s far more common for MORE acid fixing reflux than less.

If youā€™ve been fighting it for a while, look into BPC-157. Stomach magic!

#18

NICE! Light headed and vibrating is my happy place, I got problems. But Iā€™m a stim junkie. I still put DMAA in my preworkout since the FDA pulled it years agoā€¦GOOD stuff!

For those of you that remember the MicroMachines guyā€¦ kinda like that :rofl::rofl::rofl:

#19

Hi lfod14, thatā€™s the problem (referring to your last paragraph), that most people canā€™t afford to buy fresh organic beans and invest in fancy coffee equipment. The coffee I was drinking was just the precise stuff you mentioned, chemical and pesticide-laden, as Iā€™d rather spend my money on good quality, grassfed meat from my favourite butcher. It always cheers me up to see their lovely cows and sheep in their lush, green fields happily grazing. Coffee never woke me up or provided me with benefits. I simply drank it for the taste, but that meant more to me when I was still eating cream. Nowadays my daily two glasses of fresh grassfed raw milk is enough of a treat. Iā€™m looking out for raw grassfed cheese and cream too, as my body donā€™t do well with the conventional, pasteurised stuff. Anyway, I believe with coffee it boils down to N=1, itā€™s highly individual.

(M) #20

I believe I have a thinned mucosal lining. I have vitamin a deficiency that might contribute (trying the cod liver to see if it will help). I developed gastritis when I was young. It coincided with extreme weight loss, drinking alcohol and a lot of coffee. I donā€™t have gastritis anymore but now just inflammation to stomach lining that wonā€™t go away. I refuse ppis. Reflux is due to hernia and damage from a feeding tube in a hospital stay (perforated my esophagus which led to the exploratory laparotomy which led to abdominal adhesions which causes severe bloat and constipation furthering refluxā€¦) trying to find a diet that works is hard. Regardless of coffees physical effects on my stomach and esophagus I just donā€™t like that feeling of being over overstimulated anymore which is what it does to me. I notice a lot of increased anxiety hours after it wear off as well.