Why do some long-term ketoers still have excess body fat?

obesity
fat
weightloss
(Crow T. Robot) #21

I’m not questioning your recollection or his veracity, but it’s still not enough information to draw a conclusion, IMHO.

#22

He’s also often not talking about nutritional ketosis, at least that has been the case in the past (I’ve never followed him all that much for various reasons, including that his focus doesn’t seem to be nutritional ketosis even though he ‘experimented’ with it for a time last I heard).

That said, he could be in nutritional ketosis, I don’t know, I just don’t think that’s what he usually aims
for.

(Solomom A) #23

Jimmy preaches and practices nutritional ketosis. His weekly keto podcast with doc nally is excellent. He is now a believer in fasting also. He shares his lab records online. He’s been a great inspiration to some of us despite the weight. His hsCRP, hdl, trig, plaque readings etc are great. He has not hidden away from his high LDL when it was not convenient. Now @KetoDave has given us a greater insight into why it may be so.

#24

I find that very confusing given he talks endlessly about ketosis, blood ketone measurements and has a new product to measure ketones, blood glucose, and cholesterol. Nutritional ketosis has always been his goal or at least what he talks about on his many, many podcasts.

(Siobhan) #25

All, please do not derail the thread with speculation on specific people’s personal health. As we know there are some who are public figures, but that doesnt mean you should take a thread and make it about them.
Please take it to PMs to continue the conversation about specific figures (unless they have said something on the topic you want to mention of course), and stay on topic about why some people (not specific people unless tagging someone to request their opinion or speaking of your own experiences) gain weight or are still overweight on keto.

Further derailing will not be tolerated.

And as for @richard still being on medication you can always tag him and request his opinion or updates or science behind why he still takes it and if keto is enough alone.

Thank you.

#26

I’ve never followed him much (don’t really get why he’s such a big deal to be honest). I just remember years ago reading a very few things from him, including when he started looking at nutritional ketosis as opposed to simply ketosis, and also reading things from around that time where he seemed to consider himself as being in ketosis when his blood ketones read .2 mmol/L in the morning before a meal (he thought he would be ‘out of ketosis’ due to something he had with his parents the day before), which is not a nutritional ketosis range.

Regardless, as mentioned before even if he is in nutritional ketosis all the time, it’s just a one tool. It doesn’t fix everything.

(Todd Allen) #27

Eating keto is not a guarantee of becoming skinny.

Keto lowers insulin and improves insulin sensitivity. Which is helpful if not essential for weight loss but it definitely isn’t the sole factor and low insulin is not a guarantee of weight loss.

There are other factors such as stress, sleep, nutrition, general health & fitness, psychological issues, etc. Weight can be impacted by stressful work/finances or a stressful family situation or insufficient time or energy to devote to obtaining and preparing healthy meals or engaging in other healthful activities and pursuits. Keto makes it possible to lose weight while eating to satiety but there are many reasons why people may struggle eating only to satiety.

(Tom Seest) #28

I don’t see why we still equate being skinny (as an observation of someone else) to being healthy. I see skinny, “healthy” people dropping dead around me on a weekly basis.

#29

Also, healthy bodyfat is an insurance policy against famine (think Zombie Apocalypse) and illness, especially for the elderly. It’s also necessary for (female) fertility.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #30

I love you man.

#31

It’s not so much that people see being thin = healthy as being obese = unhealthy.

There are a few situations in which someone may indeed be obese and otherwise healthy, but often obesity is the result of something else being wrong (IR, for instance, or certain parts of the brain being damaged in a less common situation). It’s also possible of course that some of those problems could be corrected without the result suddenly going away, so someone could be ‘now healthy’ but still have the fat they built up when they had other problems.

There are, of course, health issues that have no correlation to obesity.

(Tom Seest) #32

True.

I view obesity as the biggest idiot light on the dashboard. We drive cars with all these idiot lights, but all of them have that one light that never goes out. In the case of my 2002 Impala, it simply a icon of an orange light in the shape of an engine. Society has trained me that I need to go to a mechanic anytime I see that indicator on the dash board, because that means it can be something serious, so I have to rush to a mechanic to determine the cause. I’m not allowed access to the true information without additional detail. I’m still puzzled, as too why they just don’t give me the system codes so I can go check it out myself.

While I can place duct tape over the “engine” light on my Impala, there isn’t enough duct tape in the world to cover up the warning light of obesity. In my lifetime, society has assigned the following causation to my state of obesity, listed in no order of importance:

  • Over eating
  • Not Exercising Enough
  • Not counting calories responsibly enough.
  • Not sleeping enough
  • working to hard.
  • Not taking medications
  • Not going to doctors.
  • Not following nutritionist’s advice.

It’s really an endless list.

I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, as we all live in different circumstances. I don’t know each individual’s circumstances, so I’m reluctant to prescribe a course of action, or causation for that matter.

I just know that I’m doing the best I can, given the information that I have, in my present circumstances given the limits of my current resources. Most people observing my present state would question why I’m trying to gain weight while I still have “excess fat” or “excess energy” stores. They would question my “plateau”. They would say that I have no right or authority to talk about the topic of weight loss, ketogenic diet, etc., because I’m not presently losing weight an you can’t see my abs. They won’t of course, actually ask me; they’ll ask others. And, the speculation will begin. But, I can assure you that people would say the same thing about me.

(Suzanne Barton) #33

Could you expound on this? I have been keto for 9 weeks now and just started regular exercise. How exactly do I get my lean mass more insulin sensitive and how does that help?
Thanks so much!

(Ernest) #34

I see keto as a healthy lifestyle with fat loss as a “side effect” of keto.
Get healthy first and weight loss will follow naturally.
Unfortunately, some folks get into keto for cosmetic purposes.
one can be skinny and really unhealthy.
I’ll take some fat with a healthy life.

(Deb) #35

I didn’t have time to read all the replies (yet!) and I’m sure mine will be an unpopular one.
First, the original ketogenic diet was developed to treat seizures, not to treat obesity. So why do people assume (and I apologize if this sounds harsh, but I don’t understand how this thinking even got started) that you can eat constant “high fat” (and I think whoever added that “high fat” part to “low carb” really did people a disservice.) and not gain weight?? Or at least not lose?? Knowing everything we know about how our bodies work, it really seems quite simple to me. Maybe I am over-simplifying it, but it seems to me that somewhere along the line, somebody said “eating fat is good”, and being the true red-blooded Americans/humans, we not only jumped in with both feet, we bought yhe lake! We decided if it was good, we’ll eat all we want! It doesn’t spike insulin! Hooray! Not stopping to think of any other impact it may be having.

#36

You might as well, he is used to this kind of judgement.

I don’t actually trust myself not to start ranting so I am going to keep it pretty brief. Why don’t you worry about your keto journey and let others worry about theirs? There could be any number of reasons why one person’s weight loss follows a different path to another. I can guarantee one thing that really doesn’t help though and that is judgemental bullshit however it is dressed up.

#37

Not really. What is evident is that, for someone who is on the insulin resistant - diabetic spectrum, minimizing insulin is the key to mobilizing fat stores. Since carbs and high protein work against this, the only thing left to eat is fat or risk downregulation of your metabolism. Ketones are a sign that this process is taking place.

#38

THIS

And Amen… I find this thread particularly distasteful.

#39

Well it’s not the first and it won’t be the last. Sadly. People need to learn to mind their own IMO.

(Tom Seest) #40

I drive a car that was simply designed to replace a horse. I use it for things, that I never would have used a horse for.

I’ve lost plenty of body fat eating high dietary fat…I’ve also lost plenty of body fat eating low carb. I know many others that have.