Why do I have consistent high blood glucose readings while fasting?

(David Miller Putnam) #1

I’m 72 yo and have been playing to chase your tail game of Diabetes2 medications for several years. Was on two different meds but no insulin. Started Keto mid November and had lost about 20 pounds within 3 weeks. Around week 4 I started One Meal A Day and got off my meds. I had my doctors advice about the meds.

Now, close to 2 1/2 months in, I am staying in ketosis verified with a Ketonix breathalyzer but I have been holding at around 208-210 pounds for over a month. I would like to go down at least 15 more pounds. However, my main concern is my Blood-Glucose readings are consistently in the 140-160 readings with some as high as 185. I’ve read in a few places that Blood-Glucose is OK to be high during ketosis. It’s still disconcerting to me. Does anyone have any advice for me? Could the high B/G readings be indicative that my body is not producing enough insulin to take care of the sugar. My diet generally keeps me below 28g of carbs daily, so, the carbs in my readings must be the results of ketosis. Can anyone illuminate this situation for me?

(Robert C) #2

If you have not already, it might be good to take readings spaced equally throughout a few days to see where it sits on average. An OMAD meal, if it is right sized (i.e. large) would (I assume, not a medical professional or diabetic) hit your system pretty hard. And, there is the “dawn phenomenon” so, depending on your meal timing, might have a compound effect or a leveling effect - but, I think several days of checking often will give you some information to work with.

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #3

What time of day are you checking your glucose? Are you checking more than once a day? I usually check before I eat my one meal.

Do you have blood ketones strips? If not, it might be helpful to check that as well.

Your glucose shouldn’t be that high, unless maybe after a meal, but still it’s high.

Have you tried going under 20g, rather than under 28g? Is that total or net?

(Janelle) #4

I had not heard this. Curious to know who is saying that and why.

(Consensus is Politics) #5

I’m 55, was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes 29 AUG 2017. I knew of keto, but didn’t think it would be healthy for me at first. I tried to do what the VA hospital suggested, and could rarely keep my BG as low as the upper 180’s, let alone in a normal range. Even had my metformin increased from 500 mg to 1000 mg with no effect.

Six weeks later I decided to get into ketosis. All the info I could find was positive for diabetics. After all, it’s a disease with carbohydrates being the strongest contributor to the condition.

I decided I’m all in. I went zero carb. As far as I was able to measure anyway. Abstained from anythingvlisting => 1 gr. And anything listing < 1 gr as being 2 gr. Keeping it on the side of error.

Less than 24 hours later my BG was down to the normal range, between 80 and 100 all day. Jumping only slightly to 120ish after a meal. Jumping drastically if I ate anything with more than 5 gr of carbs. Like a drumstick of extra crispy KFC. My BG jumped to 150ish and stayed there until I got on my stationary bike and rode for 30 minutes. Back to normal. So I try to stay at zero carbs. That was all over one year ago.

So now, I abstain from carbs still. But I don’t sweat the small ones in minor amounts of veggies like a hamburger or sandwich, I just use the bread like an oven mitten or a banana peel, and keep rolling it back as I it.

Initially, I did stop taking my metformin. For several months I didn’t take it and was doing just fine. My PC doc was shocked and strongly suggested I continue taking it despite having the best control of BG he had ever seen. He then decided to put me on a statin as well, because my cholesterol was in the high range of normal, almost borderline high. I told him I won’t take it, but I would consider keeping a critical eye on it. (It continued to improve, without the statins). Same with my endocrinologist. She was beside herself, but at the end of the consult said, “well it’s working, keep it up”.

I would suggest cutting your carbs by 50% of where you are now. If you still have the same issue after a week, cut another 50% from there. Those two cuts would put you at 25% of where you are now. Continue to cut by 50% of each check point until you get a positive reaction. Then increase your carbs by 25% of the current check point. If that increase was ok, increase again by 25%. If that puts you over, cut that back by 50% of the increase. This is called a binary search. I think it’s the easiest and quickest way to find a point at which you can safely find your maximum carb intake. Yeah, it’s a bit of work, but worth it if you want to hit the balance of carbs in vs BG in control. For me, I just decided to go zero carb, and take it from there. It worked so well I just stayed. :cowboy_hat_face:

Good luck sir!

Keto Vitae!

(Jane) #6

I’ve been listening to The Complete Guide to Fasting by Dr. Fung on audiobook and he mentions that some Type 2 diabetics can’t get their blood glucose down with just a ketogenic diet alone and have to do at least alternate day fasting to lower it. Basically you just skip a day of eating and end up with about 36 hours of fasting.

(Consensus is Politics) #7

I suppose that depends on the definition of high. To me at this point, for me anything over 100 is high. If I put a little effort into it I can keep my BG in the 70’s. I’ve had it as low as 56, I felt perfectly fine, but I understand that might be dangerously low. But the. Again, that might be dangerous for someone not fat adapted. That might be my goal today, researching ketogenic normal low BG levels.

(Bunny) #8

I really don’t have advice but will describe what I would do if my blood sugars where skyrocketing, I’m a self-experimenting bio-hacker and really like to observe my own blood sugars even though I am not diabetic or have any particular reason to be concerned about it! Everybody I seem to know including my family is diabetic or pre-diabetic! Keep in mind what I am mentioning here is to control the blood sugars, better control, means better health and possible reversal?

5 things I would do to lower blood sugars indefinitely; however I would pay special attention to blood sugars getting too low and would eat protein (not glucose) when they do:

  1. ORGANIC Apple Cider Vinegar 1 tablespoon to a glass of water including an equal amount of LEMON JUICE (optional) with some raw ginger gridded in with a cheese grater… Once a day or maybe twice a day, I usually just sip on it throuout the day!

  2. Type 2 Resistant Starch (raw sweet potato sticks: do not remove the skin) keep in fridge in a glass of water! Eat on empty stomach without any other food! You may have to experiment with amount to see effect?

  3. Bitter Melon or Goat’s Rue or Berderine (instead of Metformin)

  4. Sulphorapane from crushing the head of raw broccoli sprouts and letting sit for 15 minutes! Adding to a glass of luke warm water! see also: 5 kilograms of broccoli in a pill slashes diabetics’ blood sugar

  5. Intermittent Fasting (J. Fung et al.)

Personally I would never take Metformin even if prescribed as well as statins…

Currently my roommate (78 years old) can’t figure out why his blood sugars are so high, neither can his doctors (remote assistive device)… :roll_eyes: Try to tell anybody anything it goes right over their head and into oblivion! :roll_eyes:

(Consensus is Politics) #9

Found this while searching for Dr Eric Westman videos. Was unrelated to my search, but relates to my statement above.

Jump ahead to 7:20 or so to get to the study of low BG. A BG level of .5 mmol (or 9 mg/100ml) had no effect on the fasted patients. BG was forced to that level by pushing insulin. I like the comment by Dr Finny how the only people in the room during the study that were nervous were the physicians.

(Brian) #10

An A1C might be useful for you. Blood glucose can be kind of a roller coaster of ups and downs where an A1C is more like a several month average, at least from what I understand. (I’m not a medical type, just read some…)

(Bunny) #11

See this post here about ketogenic diet and labs:

And this:

#12

My situation pretty much mirrors yours, although I have been low carb longer. My dilemma is that after several months, and some success, I really wanted to drive it down. I got stricter, and after a few more months, FBG began rising. So I switched to 2MAD. Got good results for a few weeks, but began rising again, so went OMAD . Again, a short term downward trend. Began to add fasting, but the results haven’t been too encouraging. FBG is now higher than before i began LCHF, and doesn’t go down much during the day. I rarely get below 100 at any time of the day, where as a few months ago, my numbers after breakfast would fall into the 80’s and 90’s. Today, i woke to 137. Tested after 2 hours and 3 mugs of black coffee, and was up to 152. Went to the gym for 1 hour of heavy lifting, then walked 2 miles. Still over 120, and I am 21 hours fasted. When I posed a similar question to yours, suggestions ranged from eat more protein, eat more fat, get more calories, to join one of the online programs. I’ve added back more protein, more total calories, but no improvement. If something starts working for you, shout it out, as we seem to be in the same boat.

(Jane) #13

Have you had your fasting insulin tested?

(Bob M) #14

Personally, I’m beginning to believe that “high” blood sugar for people in ketosis might not be a bad thing, but that’s me. (I’m hesitant to chase numbers, any numbers.) I know it freaks others out, though, and yours do seem high.

Why don’t you try going backwards? That is, go to two meals a day then maybe even three meals a day. See what happens. Also, what happens if you increase your carb intake? (I know, that’s a “gasp!”, but maybe not everyone is cut out to be on keto, and there really are very few large studies of keto people.) Try paleo for a while, and maybe eat some tubers and even (I know, another “gasp!”), some potatoes. What happens with that?

Personally, I think resistant starch is garbage, but I would try it too. At some point, you have to try anything that could help, if you are concerned.

(David Miller Putnam) #15

Thank you so much for contributing. One correction I need to make…on high BG readings being ok, that should have read that BG isn’t worried too much during fasting. I believe one source I saw on that was on this forum and by Megan Ramos (Dr Fung’s group). I think the thought is while dumping a bunch of fat cells and making ketones, there can be a bunch of carbs in there, too. I know you like this scientific explanation.

I’m going to take all the suggestions and develop a direction. Will keep all informed…thanks for the help!!!

#16

No, I haven’t had that tested. I’ll ask the Dr to check that with my labs next month.

(David Miller Putnam) #17

Janelle, I miss spoke, it should have said high BG readings were not a big deal with someone fasting. One reference to that was on this forum quoting Megan Ramos from Dr Fung’s group.

Miller

#18

I did start adding a carb day every couple weeks after 240lbfatloss suggested what I was experiencing was typical for long term LCHF people that had lost significant weight. (I lost about 45 lbs over 10 months, but gained back 5 since started lifting) His suggestion was that I had been LCHF long enough to have metabolic changes and his solution was to re-balance hormones with more carbs and less fat on occasion. He had done so and broken through a plateau. I have attempted to learn about glucose sparing after becoming fat adapted, but all the examples they give have much lower FBG than I do. I guess that is the concern.

(David Miller Putnam) #19

I miss spoke, it should have said high BG readings were not a big deal with someone fasting. One reference to that was on this forum quoting Megan Romos from Dr Fung’s group.