Why can't I stay in Ketosis?

[ctviggen]

Chicken breasts without the skin is just a bad memory I have from my very low fat diet. I try to avoid chicken breast without the skin.

The amount of fat you need on a keto diet is really unknown. I have tried high fat, low fat, high saturated fat; the only thing I haven’t tried is a PKD (basically, fat plus some lean beef), because my beef fat went rancid. In general, in my opinion, saturated fat >>>> MUFA >>>> PUFA.

If you can survive on lean ham and chicken breast without the skin, then so be it.

[Fatty]

If you only wish to lose fat, however, a protein-sparing type diet, such as a well-formulated ketogenic diet, is the way to go. But fat loss comes only at the price of restoring metabolic health, which is the primary effect of a ketogenic diet.

I want to lose fat. I did use a keto macro calculator and it pointed me to about 96g of protein. Which today, I got 104. But the macro calculator also directed to have 172g of fat. but I only had 52g. I think my protein intake would prevent me from losing the muscle, but i’m not sure if my lack of fat would trigger my body to conserve the fats as if there were a famine. Since my ketone levels are in the ‘nutritional ketosis’ range when i’m not eating, i’m thinking that I might be OK with just 900-1k calories a day. Is my thinking flawed?

If i need to add more fat, do you have any suggestions of how should go about it? Douse everything with olive oil and eat butter sticks?

[Fatty]

If you can survive on lean ham and chicken breast without the skin, then so be it.

I’m fairly new to the diet, this is my 2nd week. I wasn’t planning on eating only chicken. I have hamburger thawing for tomorrow. But, I made this post because I was worried i’m not actually burning fat all day because my ketone levels are below the .5 mark after I eat.

[PaulL]

At two weeks, you are in ketosis, but your muscles are not yet fat-adapted. Right now, they are limping along on ketones (which are partially metabolised fatty acids, the way charcoal is partially burnt wood), but they really prefer fatty acids, once their fatty-acid metabolic pathways have been reactivated.

A well-formulated ketogenic diet is a long-term strategy to promote metabolic health, including the shedding of excess stored fat. It is not a quick weigh-loss scheme, so if you are expecting immediate results, you are likely to be disappointed. The best approach right now is to eat low-carb, moderate protein, and fat to satiety, and to let your body do its thing. As we say, “Keep calm, and keto on!”

[Fatty]

satiety,

I love new words and that one is new for me, to be satisfied. Thanks for your advice Paul.

[amwassil]

@ctviggen Bob, check out this by Phinney:

Steve Phinney on Pemmican and Indigenous Diets

[atomicspacebunny]

Could someone help me and tell me what i’m doing wrong?

Simplified:

Your not doing anything wrong, just the fact your seeing numbers is what really matters no matter how low.

Your ketones are low because your using most of them and you need very little ketones because your body mostly runs on glucose! Just like you cannot see them once you breath them out, they disintegrate into the atmosphere.

High ketones means your eating too much fat! When ketones get too high your going to release insulin? Just like when circulating glucose gets too high? Just the right amount of fatty acids prevent muscle catabolism and is skeletal muscle and lean body mass or protein sparing.

You go into ketosis when you go to sleep at night any way even on a high carb diet when metabolically fit! That means no insulin resistants or diabetes.

Example:

image link

[ctviggen]

Yeah, I’ve seen other similar articles. But they all really don’t know. There are some records of the US Native Americans, and I listened to a great book about the Comanches:

Empire of the Summer Moon: Quanah Parker and the Rise and Fall of the Comanches, the Most Powerful Indian Tribe in American History

They have pretty detailed information about the Comanches, most of whom followed the buffalo and ate nothing but buffalo. (Other tribes were more localized and ate more plant matter, though apparently not a lot.)

It’s just that from my perspective, fat can make me not feel good. For instance, hotdogs (even all beef ones). I can eat 1-2 hotdogs as an addendum to dinner, but if I eat nothing but hotdogs, I don’t feel good. At all. I have some type of inability to digest that much fat.

And while I love to point out groups of people who ate basically meat and who were healthy, I am genetically different from them. All my grandparents came to the US from Europe. I’m 50% Italian for instance, with Polish (Czech) up there too.

As an example, I can eat a very low fat seafood meal (shrimp, mussels, canned fish that has been drained) and be full. I can eat a meal of low fat ham and feel great.

Now, could I LIVE on a diet of that? It’s doubtful.

What I do now is eat fat when I feel like it and eat low fat when I feel like it. If I add fat, I try to add high saturated fat, like butter, sour cream, cheese. But this also depends on what I have to eat.

My first meal yesterday was pulled pork since I made that using a sous vide/smoking technique. I had a sweet/hot mustard sauce on it. I was sill hungry, so I ate some low fat ham.

Last night, we had quite lean pork chops. I ate two of those, then had yogurt, cream, coconut flakes, and some high % chocolate (88%?).

We’re going to the beach today, and my first meal will be low fat ham and pepperoni. That’s it. We might order out for dinner, depending on when we get home.

I’ll make chicken cacciatore and protein lasagna either tonight or tomorrow, both Maria Emmerich recipes. We’ll have those probably Friday and Sunday, and maybe steak with sous vide shrimp on one other day (we’re trying to get our daughters to cook, and the oldest wants to make steak, so there you go).

The fat content I’m eating? I have no idea.

[Johan_Sandgren]

One thing i havent seen mentioned yet, is stress.

We have what i know 2 parts of the nervous system, sympathetic - activated body or mind, and parasympathetic part - rest and digest part.

There are many ways to figure out how well you are in the parasympathetic state (i am feeling r3laxed and safe), and i can sleep well, i feel rested after sleep, my mind is calm, my muscles are relaxed. I dont have too muxh booked in my calendar, i feel happy, i have a good social life, i am loved, i feel self love, i care for others but primarily my own needs…these facrprs all have more or less control on whether you are gonna be activated more or more relaxed.

When activated, depending on level, at some point the digearive system downregulates burning of fat, and upregulates the need of fast energy, using sugar, carbs, getting them from somewhere quick, since we mighr be in danger.

When safe, good sleep, …etc…fat burn…works well… digestive system is focusing on fatburn more again… no need for quick sugar to be accessible.

How about these factors, where do you feel you are in your daily life?

Anything you can work on?

Myself i cleaned my bedroom from dust, was disturbing my sleep as well as addimg an aftrrnoon nap. Feel better, more rested and relaxed. Also was at protein deficit, but doesnt seem to be for you, more lile too little fat in food, while training to learn to use it.

Cheers

[Kimstarr]

Hi Fatty,

Welcome!

I’m not expert, but I’ve been doing Keto for over 5 years. My primary objective was fat loss too & I lost and have now maintened my weight easily with Keto.

The first and main thing that jumps out at me is that you are not eating enough fat. Keto is low carb/high fat. You are more low carb/low fat. And are you eating enough calories? 2 eggs, 1 chicken breast and a bit of cucumber in a day? If you added some fat I guess that would be okay but still seems a bit low if you did that everyday. I followed the rule “eat to satiety” when I first started. I tracked my macros in My Fitness Pal and I didn’t worry about calories, just macros. The fat made me full on less food than I was used to eating. The weight fell off.

Ideas for fat: Heavy cream in your coffee. Fatty cuts of meat & chicken, butter on your meat. I did’t enjoy rib-eye, so I eat filet mignon with lots of butter. Lol. Add olive oil and/or mayo based (homemade dressings) and bacon added to your salads. For chicken, thighs instead of chicken breast. If you’re out to eat, and it’s a chicken breast, no sweat.

Now that I’m in maintenance, I basically eats tons of low glycemic greens & veggies, higher fat meat & coffee with heavy cream. I did the same when I was trying to lose weight, but watched my portions a little more back then. After 3 days of my start date, I wasn’t hungry all the time, like before Keto, and it was an amazing feeling.

Also, now that I’ve maintained my weight, I continue to do Keto for health. My only regular cheats are white wine, lol.

Good luck & let us know how you are doing.

[Fatty]

ust the fact your seeing numbers is what really matters no matter how low .

Thanks for the reassurance Bunny, and I appreciate all the info.

[Fatty]

I’m not expert, but I’ve been doing Keto for over 5 years.

Kimstar,your post has been very helpful. i"m happy to hear you were able to lose weigh according to your agenda. May I ask how much you had to lose and how long it took to get to your goal?

Thank you for tips on how to increase my fat intake. I’m cooking chicken thighs for dinner today and I just entered it in to my food diary app and my jaw dropped from the calories. My goal is weight loss and I do want to achieve it rapidly. Therefore, my macro calculations are telling to shoot for 1300-1600 calories a day. The thighs I just added are 1000 calories, so not much else I can eat today.

2 eggs, 1 chicken breast and a bit of cucumber in a day?

That day was only 931 calories,. It just seems that the less calories I eat, the quicker I would lose the weight. I was very angry at myself for eating 1800 the other day. Last week, I was only fasting from 8pm to noon the next day, and I was never really hungry because i ate twice a day. amwassil had me doing a fasting experiment which got canceled, but I did fast to 5pm and now i’m continuing to do that every day. Long story short, i’m feeling a little hungry but for the most part satisfied.

As far as my ketones go, I’ve eased off checking them as frequently, but I noticed that they were going up every day and now i’m around the 1-1.3 range before I eat and in the .5-.8 range after.

Thanks for your help!

[Kimstarr]

Hi again Fatty,

I read some of the previous posts and my head hurts.

Some of y’all are making it way too complicated. Eat Low Carb/ High Fat/ Moderate Protein And NO SUGAR. No honey, nothing with natural or added sugar. Add fat and eat to satiety and then stop. Period.

Why are people worried about low fat? Why so worried about calories?

For ex. BBQ sauce will knock you out or keep you out of ketosis (and prevent weight loss)… it has sugar. (There are some low carb ones.). You can’t have pasta of any sort. Not high protein… it still has high carbs.

A little higher ketones one day doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong, nor does lower ketones. Some people just run a little differently. I was always a little lower, like 1.2 or so.

Also, whenever possible try to just eat real, whole foods, not packaged meats. For example, a steak, or a piece of chicken or pork, and some vegetables. Or a big salad with taco meat added. Or bacon. Blue Cheese dressing usually has low/no sugar added.

Focus on your macros… I think my goal was 75% fat, 20 % protein and 5 % carbs. My calorie goal was about 1200-1300. I am a female that is 5-5". Sometimes I ate 1800 calories and sometimes it was less than 1200 because I wasn’t hungry. I also cut out all alcohol for the first couple of weeks. Then only 1 glass of wine once in a while. I don’t care for vodka soda, or I would drink that since its the lowest carb type of drink.

20 g carbs in a day was my max and that was a hard rule for me and I included carbs from (for example) broccoli, and lettuce, … every single thing I ate. Total carbs, not net. I tracked everything I put in my mouth in my Fitness Pal - free version, Look at the Macros section in there… Keep it simple.

***Go back and listen to 2 Keto Dudes podcast (the guys who started this forum) start at the beginning. They are very helpful in explaining it in simple terms.

I also liked Ketogenic girl for learning how ketosis works. I did not pay to join her meal/recipe club. She has changed over the years and is more carnivore now, so maybe that will confuse things to start with her when you are new. Matt and Megah - from Keto Connect have amazing recipes when you want to try keto foods and baked goods.

Simple will last for the long haul… you will lose weight and you will keep the weight off.

Fatty, you asked about my weight loss. I started at 165 (my all time high.) I usually was about 150. I now maintain 125-130. I struggle with binge eating, and when I “cheat” it causes lots of hunger pains for more cheat foods the next day. It’s like starting all over sometimes… other times it doesn’t affect me. But I rarely cheated the first 4 years. I think I need to “reset” now.

I’ve kept my weight off for 5 years now. All of my friends think Keto is not healthy, but the proof is in the pudding & it’s just whole real foods. And as an added bonus, I also think it makes you look younger!

Good luck!!