Who we are

(Anthony Mariapain) #1

So, let me start out with that my metabolism is “deranged” as the 2KDs put it. The Keto WoE works great for me.

But I am concerned. Between the podcasts and some posts I’ve recently been a part of, there’s a sense that keto is the only way to go in life. Someone stated that they “cringe” when they give carbs (puffs in particular) to a baby. Why? Are carbs a problem for the baby or just the person who cringed?

My point is, despite the sugar/grain industry’s lobbying and actual lies out there, there are plenty of people in this world that are happy and thrive on a diet with carbohydrates. They have balanced lives and live long, productive lives. Keto just happens to be an absolutely amazing WOE that supports those of us with deranged metabolisms or for those of us (and i’m one of them) that didnt really take care of ourselves from the start.

Am I off my rocker here?

(Allie) #2

I’ve never had any metabolic issues and ate a clean, sugar free, diet for many years before stepping into keto three years ago yet have still had massive benefits since changing.

(TJ Borden) #3

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE KETO GODS!!!

It’s pretty clear by the number of n=1 testimonies on the forum that a ketogenic way of eating can help A LOT of people, but I’m with you. It’s not something everyone should, or NEEDS, to do.

As far as kids, I think given what we know now, it would be best to minimize the amount of sugar/starch and processed foods, and unless they’ve inherited metabolic issues, they’d likely never develop them simply focusing on a whole/real food way of eating.

I would argue, however, that the number of people that eat a SAD and are healthy is probably REALLY small. A vast majority that believe they are perfectly healthy probably just haven’t realized the issues lurking under the surface yet.

(Doug) #4

Refined carbohydrates and processed foods do have their drawbacks. Puffs are processed, extruded and adulterated. It’s certainly not the “end of the world,” but I’d say at least go with whole, unprocessed/less processed grains, at least.

Taking a longer view, while some carbs, per se, may be fine for a given baby, LOTS of young kids are now getting obese and getting their insulin resistance going early…

(Ethan) #5

I have a child, and we gave him puffs. He eats carbs. Some of those carbs are not good. I do cringe somewhat when I give him refined carbs and foods that are not real, whole foods. However, he is fine right now–not like me; and I don’t give him a majority of processed food. I try to give him real foods like berries and vegetables. He isn’t a fan of meat, but ground beef is something he will eat, so we give him that, too.

I think you are right to feel that its hypocritical when those of us in the keto woe force it on others. It is certainly not the only way to live. In fact, it could be bad for some people. Everything should be individual, but with knowledge of what may happen from others. That is, if you are a type-2 diabetic or have some insulin resistance, keto may be a good thing for you. I encourage such people to try it fully and see if it works. I would encourage a bodybuilder to do the same. However, I wouldn’t force it on either of them.

(Duncan Kerridge) #6

I can’t remember the current figure but something like 60-70% of the US adult population is either pre-diabetic or diabetic. Most people don’t thrive on a carbohydrate diet. At least not the carbs that they are eating.

(Frank) #7

I believe that it’s more that people “used” to be able to thrive on a diet with a high amount of carbohydrates. Enter processed food and sugar. Not so much anymore. Mix those things together and a once healthy South Pacific Islander or an Okinawan and is screwed just like the rest of us. Follow the money. Always.

(the cheater) #8

It’s the red pill/blue pill thing. When you know how your metabolism works and how hormones are regulated, it’s hard to accept that people still eat the other way. In other words, once you take the red pill, you can’t go back into the matrix.

What this comes down to is choice, really. The people living long healthy lives eating the SAD are not those who are eating a typical SAD. They are those who are active, disciplined and can exercise moderation. Unfortunately, most of us can’t/don’t do that. It’s just like not everyone who smokes is going to die of lung cancer or that everyone who drinks will get cirrhosis.

In short, keto PROBABLY IS RIGHT FOR EVERYONE, BIOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, given the physiological process it affects, but people have free will.

FWIW, I’m learning how to control my judgy self when people eat carbs or talk about how they could never do keto because they couldn’t imagine giving up bread… It helps that I cheat every week or so, so it keeps me humble lol!

But, to answer your question, IMO, it is the “right” WOE for everyone but people have free will.

(Anthony Mariapain) #9

Again…poor words. Not thrive on carb diet, thrive on a diet with carbs. Look at our Olympic athletes, they are not all on keto diets.

I used the puff story as an example of tone/behavior, but well taken OldDoug.

I’d add that lifestyle is just as responsible as diet when it comes to health. How does the sedentary American lifestyle and a diet high in carbs affect health and how much is health affected by diet alone? As an athlete and my own N=1, activity and diet go hand in hand.

(Anthony Mariapain) #10

Well said.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #11

If you have six copies of the AMY-1 gene, you can probably live on carbs without deleterious effects for a long life. If you have fewer copies, you will make less amylase, and carbs will give you more problems. That’s the science. There may be other genetic factors that allow people to better metabolize carbohydrates, simple or complex, and explains the “paradox” of people who lose weight without cutting carbs, or why carb cutting isn’t effective for some folks.

I only worry about what others do and think if they have political or social influence. But mostly political.

(Frank) #12

In all honesty, how much free will do we have when our government, doctors, health agencies like the ADA and ADA are all telling us to eat a certain way (SAD) for a healthy long life? I have trusted that advice for decades as have the majority of my fellow Americans, and it has made us fat and sick period. Yes there are outliers that do ok on the SAD, but these are the exception not the norm. I can’t recall the video that I watched, but it showed that if the current obesity trend continues (not accelerates) that the costs involved with treating disease directly related to metabolic syndrome will exceed 3xs our gdp within the next 12-15 years. I’ve never been a conspiracy guy but if that’s even remotely close to true that should scare the hell out of people. Next time you read your local newspaper take a look at the obituaries. You’ll see mostly 80s and 90s have passed and then a whole lotta 50s and early 60s and even 40s.

(charlie3) #13

These kinds of statistics are what got my attention. Obviously most people do NOT prosper on carbs in the long run but this is about addiction, unhealthy dependence. Generally it’s hard to have reasoned and rational discussion with an addict who is in denial. That would cover most of the people in the modern world.

(Anthony Mariapain) #14

“In all honesty, how much free will do we have when our government, doctors, health agencies like the ADA and ADA are all telling us to eat a certain way (SAD) for a healthy long life?”

You have as much free will as you choose to exercise, the fact you are doing keto is an indicator of your free will despite what’s pushed by the gov.

IMHO, people have become lazy (we seek the easy route) and have chosen to give up their free will to the government.

We have to remember though, those diets (good or bad) being pushed are not meant to drive a healthy life in a vacuum. It’s lifestyle. I venture to guess that the amount of activity (walking, running, working out sports, etc) has also decreased since low-fat craze that started in the 50s.

This is a great discussion. Thanks for keeping it civil.

(the cheater) #15

Well, again, any professional athlete who burns 7000 calories per day exercising is hardly a fair comparison to the average sedentary (or even mildly active) American burning 2500 but eating 2800 (or any other figures). But here, again, is an area where we can’t really prove a negative. Maybe keto would work for them. Who knows?

Both of you have great points. Obviously we have free will and can choose, but we only choose based on the information we have available to us. As a nurse, I always have to laugh when a patient signs an “informed consent.” By law, the consent is invalid if it’s signed under duress, pressure, or any form of coercion or intoxication. But really, who gets ANY surgery without some impetus (Kardashians aside)? That is, sure, I could decline the surgery to remove my burst appendix, but the result is death. How is that not coercion/pressure? Do I really have a choice? The answer, of course, is “yes” :wink:

(German Ketonian) #16

My girlfriend is non-keto and enjoys her (processed) carbs. She’s healthy and apparently deals with them well. For her, the (perceived) loss of life quality simply is too high, and I can’t be bothered to “convert” anyone. Some people thrive on carbs and have no energy or inflammation issues, at least so far. Jason Fung has made similar arguments when he advocates “healthy carbs” such as rice or beans. It’s something which is not well received in the keto community sometimes…

(Frank) #17

Speaking from 40 years experience eating the SAD, I “needed” to avoid all processed carbs and sugar in order to normalize my hormones and heal myself. I was well on my way to t2 as are many of us. 8 months into this and I am healing well. I’ve introduced complex carbs on occasion and seem to tolerate them well. That being said I am but one person and my tolerance for carbs is different from everyone else. Some may very well be able to go back to the occasional processed carb and sugar lifestyle. Others with a different emotional and physiological relationship with carbs may need to avoid them at all cost. I’m glad that your girlfriend does fine with processed carbs. So did I 30 years ago. I thought anyway. I just wish I knew then what I know now. I can’t change the past but the future is all mine and I can also influence my girls decisions for their future health. I will always find time for that.

(German Ketonian) #18

I agree! It’s just that some people aren’t ready to go the route. I’ve had countless discussions about that… but I agree 100% that the present is by no means a precursor of the future. But she has little incentive to change since she is healthy and unconvinced that eating so much fat is a good thing.

(karen) #19

My opinion, and it’s just an opinion, is that SAD causes metabolic disease. Not that it contributes, not that it exacerbates. It CAUSES the underlying derangement that lead to all these chronic western diseases, and this begins when you begin eating carby junk, even if you’re two years old. Perhaps especially if you begin when you’re two years old. So yes, when I see people like my nephew being stuffed with “healthy” organic pancakes loaded up with “healthy” maple syrup, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, and daily ice cream with a side of soft pretzels, I cringe. It’s not that a serving of cocoa puffs is going to kill him, it’s that he’s being set up for a lifetime of thinking this is good, healthy food, and he’s already pudgy at age 11, right on track for diabetes. Cinnamon Toast Crunch runs in his family.

(Randy) #20

Juvenile type 2 diabetes is a thing now. Think about that.